Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that its quite rude and pointless to keep telling someone about a lack of jobs in their chosen career if you don't have any advice?

78 replies

LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 14:39

This one is just getting on my nerves at the moment. I am studying and training for a job I hope to get sometime next year when I finish. I know there aren't a lot of jobs out there, obviously, the economic situation being what it is. But it's beginning to get really annoying that friends feel the need to keep telling me 'oh, there aren't any jobs you know', and 'proving' their point by telling me about other people they know who've been job-hunting unsuccessfully for ages.

I would understand if they had helpful advice, or if I thought they were genuinely worried about me and wanted to encourage me to pack in my training. But they're not: they know that basically I will have wasted a shedload of money if I pack it in now, so I'm probably not going to stop.

AIBU to be irritated? And how do I get them to shut up about their unemployed friends ... I know I may well end up in the same boat but I find it really annoying that they talk as if the fact other people are unemployed proves I won't get a job ... and couldn't possibly be for other reasons.

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 16:54

Thanks, this has been really helpful and I'm feeling quite energetic about it all now! Much appreciated. Smile

OP posts:
LineRunner · 31/08/2011 16:59

You deserve it, LRD. You put so much stuff of value on MN. You often make me smile, sometimes grimace, but you are very giving of your time and intellect. It's people like you that make MN an environment, not just a talkboard. Smile

alwaysonthemove · 31/08/2011 16:59

think another thing that worked in his favour was that we couldn't afford for him to go off to many conferences unlike a lot of the other students who had dad-banks so he really had to think about which would get him the most networking opportunities rather than just going to ones that "look interesting" like a lot of the others. And he never got wasted at them. I know sounds obvious but he says that some of his friends from his studies would treat it like a care-free reunion. I don't think it goes un-noticed.

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 17:12

Oh ... that is very kind line. Blush

(When do I make you grimace then?! I try not to go on MN when I'm liable to behave like a twit, but it doesn't always work ... Grin).

always - that makes sense! I don't drink, so no getting wasted ...

OP posts:
Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 17:13

Btw, I believe 'giving of your time' is the fig-leaf for 'wasting your days getting distracted with MN when you should be working'. Grin I get work done at the same time, I promise.

OP posts:
SuePurblybilt · 31/08/2011 17:18

Ah sorry, missed the bit about you being so far away.
Maybe ask if they do a flexible learning/outreach programme (my university did a distance learning year where lectures and seminars were supposed to be entirely on a forum) and volunteer as a staff member on that? They often need someone to keep the discussion relevant or ask questions to perk the threads up a bit, in my experience anyway.
You could cite your MN experience as a qualification Grin.

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 17:29

Grin I could tell them I'm a MNion.

OP posts:
Cereal · 31/08/2011 17:33

YABU. I wish someone had told me what to expect after studying, instead of leaving me to naively have faith in the "system"!

LineRunner · 31/08/2011 17:33

LRD, I am telling myself that my MN time is research-based engagement...

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 17:39

Cereal, the point is they're not telling me what to expect at all! If they wanted to give any advice, I'd be ok with it.

OP posts:
Cereal · 31/08/2011 19:32

They're telling you not to expect to be able to find a job in your chosen field, which admittedly won't make any difference to you completing your studies. Perhaps they are concerned for you and wonder if you have a back-up plan. You could ask them if they have any ideas - or you could just tell them you'll cross that bridge when you come to it.

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 19:43

I usually do do those things ... I just find it irritating that people seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to bring up, often at a lot of length, and don't really seem to want to give advice (as I said in my OP).

OP posts:
MillyR · 31/08/2011 19:53

LRD, at the moment there are lots of areas where jobs are few and far between. You could have spent the last ten years working in some solid area like being counter staff in a bank and now find yourself out of a job and finding it hard to get another.

So I think any veiled criticism you receive that you are working towards a job that is hard to get is pointless. Jobs in general are now hard to get.

I think what you should do is write papers after you complete, so that you haven't got a CV gap, and just accept that a job may take a while to get, but that is normal. If you don't get the job you really want, you will just start looking at other options.

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 19:58

That's true - and still I'd not thought of it. Thanks Milly (btw, sorry about the A Level thread, I got utterly confused there!).

I'll take your advice re. papers. Out of interest, how long do you reckon it takes for most people to get a job?

OP posts:
crazyspaniel · 31/08/2011 20:25

Academic job? Usually people aren't getting permanent posts until their mid-thirties, assuming that they did their various degrees at the "usual" time. As I said, I'm in the humanities and this is the most competitive area - it's probably different in the sciences and social sciences. But people do get temporary postdocs before then, though you have to be willing to move wherever they crop up. You need tenacity, that's for sure - a lot of people give up and move on to other sectors of employment, but if you stick it out, get youself a healthy portfolio of publications and make sure you network, I don't think it's quite as bad as people make out.

A word of warning about teaching: I know a lot of people in the postdoctoral phase (but without a formal postdoctoral role) who are run ragged doing hourly-paid teaching and consequently have no time to work on publications. Preparing new courses when you're not very experienced is enormously time consuming, and very poorly paid (you get paid for actual contact hours but can easily spend several hours preparing for each contact hour). I'm not saying don't do any teaching - you should certainly get some experience. But don't spend term after term doing hourly-paid teaching at the expense of your research profile.

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 20:34

Oh, yes, I meant a postdoc not tenure! Blush

My (dearly loved but annoyingly capable) brother got his first postdoc just before he submitted for his viva, did two postdoc placements and then got a permanent post. My impression is this is unusual, but obviously it's a bit scary to have as a comparison. We're in different fields btw .. I'm English.

Thanks for the warning about teaching! I love teaching so that will be something for me to be careful about.

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 31/08/2011 20:36

LRD, if it's not giving away too much personal information, what's your field? It makes a difference because the steps to career progress vary a lot across different academic fields.

changeforthebetter · 31/08/2011 20:41

Glum friend (in what she says is a dead end job) - yeah I thought about a PGCE but in your subject Change (also hers) there were only four vacancies in the country Hmm. She is normally lovely and I think she's depressed about her own work situation.

There are a lot fewer jobs but to say there are none is a bit silly.

Cereal · 31/08/2011 20:42

You didn't say in the OP whether you'd asked them to give advice, or were just hoping they'd give it as well as their opinions. But if they are just being negative about your future then YADNBU.

HannahHack · 31/08/2011 20:44

YANBU

I am quite cross that during a lot of my time at school I would voice career ambitions and we told by some one with a cats bum face, "oh its very competitive".
I now work in an extrmeley cometitive industry (I'll be honest I am a journalist) for an award winning magazine in a job that fits very well into my ambitions and life thank you very much.

I am cross as people who went to private schools got told, "You want to be prime minsiter, well why the hell not?!" People who dare to dream etc...

crazyspaniel · 31/08/2011 20:45

LRD - my husband is in English. It's very unusual in any humanities field to get a postdoc before you finish your PhD, your brother did well there! DH did three years of part-time teaching (one or two modules a term) while he worked on publications and got himself a book contract, then he got a postdoc. And then just a month into the postdoc he got a permanent job. It was a hard slog, but he is very determined and focused (much more than me!) - he is able to do that male compartmentalising thing where nothing interferes with his sitting in front of the PC and researching / writing for eight hours a day. I would be so much more productive if I had that ability!

Original poster
LRDTheFeministDragon · 31/08/2011 20:51

Hannah - good on you! Grin

crazy Whew, that's a relief. No, my brother isn't humanities (maths), so that may be why. He didn't give the impression it was unusual, which had me a bit worried! When I said 'I'm English', I mean I study English.

I can manage half of what your husband does ... I have no trouble sitting at the computer for 8 hours a day ... Grin

OP posts:
TheMitfordsMaid · 31/08/2011 20:52

I always tell myself (and others) that it doesn't matter how many people are competing for a job, for job interviews are about proving yourself to be a match for the and organisation. If you can't do that, then you probably won't get the job, whether there are 2 or 2000 people after it.

crazyspaniel · 31/08/2011 20:53

Sorry - I've just read that back and realised that 3 years probably sounds really discouraging! Some of my husband's cohort got postdocs within a year of their vivas. A couple also got jobs abroad (Japan, Singapore, Middle East, Australia) more or less immediately. If you have the flexibility to go abroad, I really think this is something to consider. Pay is much higher, as is respect for academics, and you don't have to jump through so many hoops in terms of publications, nor do you spend as much time on the job doing managerial crap.

crazyspaniel · 31/08/2011 20:56

Also - not sure what in particular your specialism is, but there are definitely some areas of English Lit where there are more applicants for jobs than others. DH is in one of the worst, which may be why it took him so long to get a permanent job. The job that he got, there were 300 applicants for. Some of the posts in my department that we've advertised recently, we've struggled to put together a shortlist for.