to own a property you have to work before children

[oohlaalaa]

My cousin was bemoaning the fact her and her husband are still renting, my mum said to me after that's what happens when you have children young. She should have worked for a few years first, to get savings / mortgage.

My cousin did a degree in social work, and as soon as she graduated she and her now husband got engaged, travelled for six months, then married, and soon after that had two children. They had their first child at 23 and 24. He works full-time, but not in a very well paid job. Cousin has two lovely children and works part-time as a carer. They live in a sweet little cottage, and although they have to be frugal, always seem very happy.

Is my mum right? My mum feels that her niece should have worked and saved for a few years, before children. Mum's view is that her niece chose to have children young, and so has to accept renting for foreseable future.

My mum and Dad married at 21 and 22 respectively, but delayed children till they were 29 and 30. My parents reckon this was the best decision they ever made, as they paid off a large chunk of mortgage (my brothers the eldest and he was born in 1980).

I've been broody for years, but DH has kept delaying children due to finances. He has agreed to start TTC next year though (I'll be 29, and he'll be 34).

Do you agree with my mum, or is she being judgemental?

MillyR is right - there's is plenty around if you are willing to move:

Burton on Trent - which is where we bought our first house. Bloody lovely town - easy commute to Birmingham, Derby, Nottingham and Leicester has quite a few decent 2 bed houses for around £60k (I've searched on up to £70k to allow for offers):

[[http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=STATION^1613&insId=1&sortByPriceDescending=false&maxPrice=70000&displayPropertyType=houses&oldDisplayPropertyType=houses&radius=5.0 Burton on Trent

Sorry, that should have been 'do not need lots of work doing on them.'

I've never worked, and dd1 was born within a month of dh starting his first proper job which paid more than pocket money.
We bought our first house when dd1 was 2yo, although we had an unexpected bonus which gave us a deposit and made it possible. We live in a non-London expensive area.

Lenak and MillyR If you want to give me the £14k I need to get a mortgage for a £70k I will happily move to Burton-on-Trent, Wolverhampton, Leeds, Newcastle or wherever you'd like. Because I'm nice I'll even pay the solicitors fees and other costs myself.

Please don't tell me that I'm not doing enough to save a deposit, that I'm lazy, living in the wrong areas, not working hard enough/earning enough because unless you are trying to buy a house right now you really have no idea what we are going through.

mummymccar - It is hard now post 2006 but pre 2006 it was very easy, so I always think if people were old enough to buy then they should of done as it would of been easy for them to get on with low deposits and low wages (not including london)

We were married very young but waited ten years until we had good careers and our first house.

Best decision we ever made. I would hate, HATE to be renting now with kids, very unstable and stressful way to live.

There's no way I'd advise anyone to wait till they're 37 or 38 to try for a family. I have several friends who are menopausal at 40 or even 39.

It's one thing if that's how circumstance works out. It happens.

I don't mind renting, tbh. Life's too short to live in a shitehole, IMO.

Jellybeans208 - exactly, I just wish that people who'd bought pre-2006 wouldn't lecture those of us who are struggling post-2006 and telling us we aren't trying hard enough. It is insulting, patronising and quite simply vile. (not you jellybeans, you've been nice)

MM, I'm not saying those things. I'm not passing any kind of judgement on you. I'm think about what the options are for my own children in the next ten years, and the relative merits of living in different parts of the country, taking out different types of mortgage or renting.

There are often very good reasons to rent. Where I live, the rental situation is really bad. If my children moved somewhere else, renting might be the better option.

No I agree mummymcar that post 2006 is ridiculous but surely it cant stay like this forever. However even if you buy its not always ideal before we were off the fixed rate 2/3 of my husbands wages were mortgage, also we live in a flat and not a house even though I grew up in a house but things are different now down South.

However it is very cheap up North and we have family up there but we dont want to leave our life in the South so we have to take the sacrifices I suppose!

What is right for some isn't always right for everyone.
I met my husband when I was 22, and we bought a small house together. He is 10 years older than me, and had a very small flat with a bit of equity so we used that as our deposit. We had 0 furniture for years, slept on the floor for 3 years as we couldn't afford a bed! no carpets, car boot curtains, no washing machine. There was no way we could have had a baby then, house was too cold! We had our first child when we could afford it. I was 28 DH was 38, by then we had put all our money in to the house, every bit of cash we had went to paying extra of the mortgage.
No holidays, no cars, we were very happy (still are)
When we came to sell 10 years after buying we had made over 80K on the property, and had almost paid off the mortgage. We were able to buy a much nicer house, in a lovely area. There is no way on God's earth we would have done any of the above if we had kids when we first got married. We did what was right for us, everyone should do what's right for them .

MillyR - You said
'It is possible; it just means you have to limit where you live and consequently what job opportunities you have.'

I have moved 200 miles away from any of either my or DP's family or friends and am incredibly lonely. DP took a job he hates just for the money (which is very good) and I re-trained because my job wasn't earning enough even though I loved it. I also took another job to earn extra. Your messages suggest that I should either earn more or move to another area and that I have 'a choice'. I did both and neither have brought me any closer to my goal. What else can I do?

We tried to get onto the government schemes that were scrapped this year but so many people applied that we couldn't get any help. The government keep building houses but until the banks change their 20% policy there is very little chance of many people being able to buy them.
Renting isn't ideal - I'd love to be able to paint the walls of the room my baby will sleep in, but I can't. So I just get on with it.

To those of you who are reading this, bought pre-2006 and have teenaged children; I'm asking you in all seriousness to start saving now. This situation doesn't look to change any time in the next few years and I know that my parents and DP's parents find it very difficult to watch us going without for so long to have the same priviledges that they took for granted. Don't put yourselves through that too.

MM. It is possible. It is simply not the case that there are no people in the entire country who are buying houses under the age of twenty five without parental help.

I am sure there are very good reasons why you cannot buy a house. I am not saying that is not the case.

I can't afford to start saving now for my teenage children. DH has lost his job. I am not taking your advice personally because I understand that it is possible for other parents of teenage children to start saving.

I have to look at the housing possibilities for my kids; that doesn't mean every single person in the UK can buy a house, or rent for that matter. A lot of people are homeless, usually through no fault of their own.

None of this is any criticism of the options open to you personally and your situation. I am merely responding to the OP's perspective and the fact that there is no way I am leading my children to believe they should delay having children on the basis of the housing market being more difficult. Because there are ways around it for many people; that doesn't mean there are ways around it for you.

Every life is differnt: we had the house then the family and lost the house due to ill health. We'd worked for years but it mattered not a jot in real terms.

OTOH BIL and SIL had the chidlren first then slogged and saved and have the house.

We'll be unlikely to buy again- possible but life's been a little shall we say atypical for us- and it's quite ahrd changing to a renting-is-OK mindset, and also dealing with the day to day fears of becoming homeless etc.

I'd love to have the securoty of a home for life, but in real terms a lot worse can happen in life that not owning a house. Such as not having access to a house at all, which with the way social housing is causes huge issues for many people- working or not. Certainly locally landlords can cherry pick and a job guaranees you zero: plenty of employed people in homeless accomodation with their famillies, have worked with some myself.

I married at 21 had DS at 22 and the only house DH and I have lived in together is bought, so it is possible but the downside is that I am basically "forced" to work almost full time (I'd love to be SAHM) and as we bought right before the recession we are stuck in a house that sometimes feels jest a bit too small and we are paying quite a high mortgage despite being in negative equity.

So there's pros and cons to both renting and owning. At least when renting you could move if you're home no longer suits your family.

'Because there are ways around it for many people; that doesn't mean there are ways around it for you.

Exactly: as a carer I know that for at elast teh short term our options are simply get by (DH si self employed and a FT student: no local LL would look at self employed, the insurance companies will not consider it, ertainly not newly self employed anyway but it's better than his otehr option which was long term unemployment).

I will be lucky if we manage to get a small house fo DH, our most disabled child and I to live in during our old age: the other boys are somewhat on their own financially. As was I indeed. They will still I hope have good and happy lives.

MillyR - That last paragraph wasn't aimed specifically at you by any means and I apologise if it came across that way. I'm sorry to hear about your DH, my parents have been in that situation and I know how difficult it is emotionally, financially, how it can have a physical impact on your health. I hope that he finds work soon and wish you the best.

cat64 - Yes, I accept that I am taking this very personally. Several posters (not just MillyR, though I did reference that line because she asked me specifically what she had said) said things that I felt were passing judgement on myself, my friends and other people in this position that have commented without knowing the facts. I began by listing the facts of the current situation in my first post. That referenced the fact that the average house price was around £150,000 and required a deposit of £30k. This was followed up by half a dozen links to houses that were around the £40k-60k pricemark with the advice that people in my position should move to these areas. The way that these posts were presented was very upsetting to me considering that I have moved so far away from everyone I love in order to be able to afford a house and still can't. It was oversimplified and seemed to completely ignore the problems raised by myself and others. I felt that I was being told that I could buy a house, I just wasn't trying hard enough.

I understand that not everybody is in my position, but a lot of people are. The majority of people I know that don't own a home have given up on the idea now, those that are still trying are having to give up alot in order to do this. Seeing this every day is very upsetting.

I accept that I'm taking this very personally though. I hoped to be able to put across my points, but considering that I've spent the last hour crying about some of these posts I don't think it very wise that I contribute anymore.

Good luck to everyone.

Mummymccar it's easy to get upset about a thread when it affects your RL: I know Ilve done it a hundred times.

There are exceptions to everything. I could move to a cheaper area but I have spent pushing a decade fighting for disability school placements for my boys and would lose them: not a bloody chance I am risking that! Not as if ds1's unit is dulicated anywhere within rach of DH's university anyway.

I don't know about you but before things got tough I was the sort of eprson with confidence in my ability to find a solution to every problem: heck I got bloody paid for that! When faced with something you can't solve that's a very ahrd lesson. And not a lesson everybody gets to elarn, especially on MN where people speak in generalisations as a necessity.

The vast majority of people on MN are trying to help but can't know the miniutae of lives and so some suggestions will seem pointless. Best thing to do is step back when things hurt and try and take things in the best light possible.

Take care.

I agree with Peachy. I came on to this thread thinking about me personally because there are often threads on here which are extremely critical of young parents. My personal favourite was the one where a poster declared that any mother under 25 should be in a mother and baby home.

So I am hypersensitive to threads claiming we should all wait ages to have kids or should be treated a certain way or have certain expectations of rubbish lives if we don't wait. It is hard not to apply it to your own situation, and I often fail not to take it personally.

Are you alright Milly? I;ve been ahrdly ehre for a hwile so struggling to keep up with how people are.

How's your DH coping?

My 1 bedroom flat in London N4 cost £20,000 in 1983. My salary was £6,000pa, I was allowed 3x my salary as a mortgage, was given £2,000 deposit by my parents as "I hadn't spent their money going to university". I have bought and sold several times (including Murder Mile, Jodie!) since then, but have seen the most recent sale price of my old flat in 2010 was £263,000!!!

Holy hell, how could anyone possibly start these days - children or not?

ps for family reasons moved out of London in 2004.

It is very kind of you to ask Peachy. I have no idea what point we were up to last time I mentioned it. He became disabled, had time off for an operation, went back to work, got made redundant as did many other people.

He is now looking at changing career entirely, so may end up much happier than he would have been had he not lost his job. But at the moment it is all up in the air.

Oh My Good God

Is else watching Location, Location...? £380,000 Pinner

Ok house. (I'd buy it for development...if I could...well, in all honestly, on a business development loan, I could)

Needs a LOT of work

£380,000!

......