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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a GCSE science tutor to have some relevant qualification?

94 replies

MrsRobertDuvall · 29/08/2011 08:41

Dd is entering yr 10 and needs extra support with science as she is only working at level 5.
I contacted a local recommended tutor agency, explaining that it was not merely revision, but going back to basics and working alongside the curriculum.
I have had a call from a lovely lady, who has a degree in marketing. She has never been a teacher, and has GCSE Science grade b.
I've gone back to the agency and said I do want someone who is/has been a secondary teacher, with experience in GCSE science. At £30 an hour, I think that's reasonable.
We have a maths tutor who meets that criteria.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsRobertDuvall · 29/08/2011 10:24

Thanks NotjustKAngaskhan....we are in SW London.
And dd definitely needs someone face to face to see her blank expression when she does not understand.

OP posts:
golemmings · 29/08/2011 10:36

I have to confess the only year I understood GCSE physics was the year it was taught by our chemistry teacher. She clearly wasn't a natural physicist and went out of her way to explain it in a way that the scientifically challenged could understand.

Unfortunately in their own subjects, neither the physics nor the chemistry teacher could understand how you could fail to grasp something as simple and straight forward as their own subjects and I did badly in both.

Its not all in the detailed understanding of the subject...

TrillianAstra · 29/08/2011 10:41

£30 an hour is not as much as you think if you take into consideration travel to and from your house, preparing for tutoring sessions, keeping up to date with the syllabus, maybe marking work that the student has done.

For £30 an hour I would expect a tutor who had an A level in the subject in question (and a decent grade at GCSE) but no more.

streakybacon · 29/08/2011 11:03

Have you tried University Tutor? Uni students looking for tutoring work at very reasonable rates. You can check their A level results in the subjects they're offering and interview them beforehand to be sure they're right for your child. I had an amazing English tutor for ds till a few weeks ago and she was only asking £6 an hour.

TrillianAstra · 29/08/2011 11:04

The OP expects someone who has teaching qualifications so that won't be good enough for her streakybacon.

streakybacon · 29/08/2011 11:07

Fair enough. Just suggesting a different angle.

TrillianAstra · 29/08/2011 11:10

I think it's a good idea but the OP has ridiculously high requirements

handbagCrab · 29/08/2011 11:24

L5 at the end of year 9 is broadly where the average learner should be. So going into year 10 this would be the norm nationally. Level 5 at the end of key stage 3 should translate to grade c at gcse. Is your child actually underachieving? Their normal teacher should be able to tell you.

Might be worth waiting until she starts the course & seeing which bits she finds difficult before forking out for a tutor.

stellarpunk · 29/08/2011 13:11

@noble.. Not really, no. The GTS insist that to gain your pgce you must have a relevant degree in your chosen subject OR have undertaken a special conversion course. My pgce covers me from ks3 to Ks5. Most usually do.

Now, once you are in school you may well be directed to teach outside of your subject. So as spider points out a physics teacher could be asked to teach biology. However it is MUCH more likely that due to the chronic shortage of physics teachers, it is the biology teachers who teach the physics.

Let's ponder that one for a moment; there are currently 500 schools who have no true physics specialists.

To really stretch the student, IMO a specialist who can communicate is necessary.

SiamoFottuti · 29/08/2011 13:14

Won't people with teaching qualifications be, er, teachers? Why would you imagine they are lining up to be grinds tutors? Confused

Cheria · 29/08/2011 13:14

I have taught several subjects (various business siklls and management) without having the experience or teaching qualifications. I also taught English as a foreign language for years with no TEFL diploma.

I think that one on one teaching is different to full class teaching, and that a tutor with little experience of a subject, but with teaching experience and who knows how to explain things in a simple enough way, can teach level 5 to basic GCSE. I wouldn't expect your daughter to get an A* based on her teaching though - you'd need a real science expert for that.

stellarpunk · 29/08/2011 13:16

Perhaps I'm in a different position that most of posters here because I have seen and heard the utter nonsense which is spouted by non physics specialists during physics lessons.

As I know you lot are v concerned about education I imagine that would worry you all?

Pippaandpolly · 29/08/2011 13:20

YANBU. I am an English teacher, have History A level, love History, read a lot about it but could no way teach History GCSE-at least not without learning the entire curriculum first which would take so much time and effort I'd be charging way more than £30 an hour! You're completely reasonable to expect a subject specialist, and either a qualified teacher or someone with experience in that area. However, I think experience is more relevant in other subjects, like IT or Art-e.g. you could be an amazing artist without having a degree in that subject (because the skills don't have to be learned in a classroom if you see what I mean) but you couldn't be an Historian without the uni background.

Pippaandpolly · 29/08/2011 13:21

And unless you can find a career scientist to be her tutor, the only good enough option is a qualified subject specialist teacher in this instance in my opinion.

Original poster
MrsRobertDuvall · 29/08/2011 13:39

Trillian.......I would happily pay £40 an hour to someone who is qualified. I am not expecting dd to get an A*...just get a decent pass, and be confident about the subject.
Don't think I have "ridiculously high requirements" ......

OP posts:
HauntedLittleLunatic · 29/08/2011 13:45

But surely tutors do not have to be qualified in anything.

Requesting someone with relevant experience and/or qualifications is sensible but I wouldn't expect all tutors to be qualified. You just have to ask the right questions and be selective yourself.

stellarpunk · 29/08/2011 13:52

Perhaps a but if context might be to say if I'm spending £30 an hour, that is the wage equiv. of a teacher on £56k. Ok, that's not taking into account agency fees.

noblegiraffe · 29/08/2011 13:54

Stellarpunk, your PGCE is in science, not in physics. I think you have a case to argue at A-level, but it is a bit much to insist no one teaches outside their science specialism at GCSE. Obviously in an ideal world you wouldn't, but we're not.

I'm a maths teacher, I didn't do any statistics post-A-level yet I have successfully taught the A-level statistics module and have been asked to teach GCSE statistics. It's about transferable skills. There are plenty of history teachers in the Humanities departments teaching a bit of geography and RE, or tech teachers doing textiles and food tech.

HauntedLittleLunatic · 29/08/2011 14:05

Once you have qualified teacher status a head can ask you to teach any subject.

In theory you could be asked to teach French without being able to speak a word of the language. In practise such an extreme example is unlikely to occur. I do however know of science teachers teaching RE/RS.

I have biology degree. Have done physics conversion course. Start a science (with physics specialist) pgce in a couple of weeks. I expect to develop my capabilities to teach chemistry to gcse and physics/biology to a level.

Do you know which subject (within the scenario outlined above) worries me most? It's the biology. The one I have a degree and 15+years of industrial experience. The reason being that my bank of knowledge is FAR beyond that which I will be expected to teach and I will have to dumb down.

KatieMiddleton · 29/08/2011 14:17

I don't think it matters if they have a teaching qualification but they must have a decent knowledge of the subject.

When I was at uni (studying English) I worked as a tutor to GCSE level. I specialised in students who had little/no English (foreign students) and those who were predicted to fail their GCSEs. I didn't use a syllabus (that was for their teachers) but went right back to basics: sentence structure, types of words, the homonyms and getting them to read books and tell me about them. Lots of basic exercises and gradually increasing difficulty. We also looked at coursework and I would coach them (NB not do it for them or tell them how to change it) so they could see their mistakes and how to improve.

All my students passed and their grades went up from mock/predicted grades by at least two grades.

But based on the OP I would not have been an acceptable candidate (only had a C grade in English A level although had a A* and B at GCSE due to not being good in exams). So perhaps a less rigorous criteria is needed? Although I agree a B grade in Science not exactly the standard one would expect...

stellarpunk · 29/08/2011 14:20

Assumptions there noble! My pgce is science (physics). I have a physics degree an an AS in biology.

Again, seen then damage that is caused hen teachers who are not qualified teach outside their subject. Or are you trying to insist that NEVER happens.

Also again, what is this science people speak of :)

stellarpunk · 29/08/2011 14:27

Good luck on your pgce haunted. Always good to get another physics bod in the fold! :)

noblegiraffe · 29/08/2011 14:32

Science is the subject that appears on the kids' timetables. It's the name of your department. It is the unifying name for various fields of study that meet similar criteria (roughly the study of nature - the material universe - forming evidence-based conclusions).

noblegiraffe · 29/08/2011 14:35

Stellar, there is damage done by crap teachers teaching within their own subject. I don't think every teacher teaching outside their specialism is bad at it.

ravenAK · 29/08/2011 14:52

I've been teaching KS3 & GCSE English rather successfully for 12 years - I don't have an English degree.

It is caveat emptor when it comes to private tutors, so OP is perfectly within her rights to want a subject specialist with QTS, although in reality, there aren't going to be many available - they'll tend to have full time teaching posts.

I know one local Science tutor who advertises private tuition. He's an ex-colleague who failed his induction year & has been unable to find a teaching post since. He's bloody useless.

You might find a recently retired subject teacher via the school (our ex Head of Maths is now very much in demand for one-to-one).

Otherwise, a good A Level student from the local 6th form might be your best bet. They'll have recent experience of the course & be much cheaper (although I know OP said cost wasn't really a concern).

Did the lady from the agency have any track record in successful tutoring? I changed career & went into teaching after I was asked to help a friend's dd with her English GCSE ('you've always got your nose in a book, raven, go on, have a look at her coursework with her' Grin) & discovered an aptitude for it - she might be brilliant. It might be worth asking her to do a couple of trial sessions & seeing how dd gets on.