to not really want to leave London?

[OTheHugeRaveningWolef]

Sorry if this is a bit long.

I met DP 3 years ago. At the time, he was living between a house in the countryside and a flat provided by his work in central London. I was living in London as well.

Some time after we met, he moved jobs, meaning he no longer had the work flat in central London. Around the same time he and I agreed that I'd spend a bit of time working unpaid for this startup I was consulting for with a view to taking equity and seeing it grow. But then shortly after moving in with him I got a great job offer, in London, so having given up my place in London we were then both commuting every day.

After a while it started to drive me nuts living in 'his' space, and he was fed up with all my stuff lying around, so I ended up moving back out of his place to a flat in London again. Things were suddenly really, totally, wonderfully rosy and everything seemed to have fallen into place. He proposed last winter and I said yes.

But now that we're planning on getting married, there's this question of where the flaming nora we're going to live. He doesn't want to do his London job forever - it's become increasingly clear over the time I've known him that he'd rather move right away from London as soon as he can. He also doesn't want to move back to London permanently, as he says it's too noisy, smelly, unsafe and expensive and he loves the countryside. He doesn't even like coming to my flat in London, as he says South London reminds him too much of the city where he grew up.

I on the other hand am committed to a training course that'll require me to be in or around London for another 2 years. Most of my friends are in London. I'm worried that if I move out of London to be with DP when we're married I'll make it loads harder to finish my training, I'll lose touch with my friends and I'll end up stuck in a backwater with fewer opportunities in my chosen field. I'm happy to move away eventually, but I'm really frustrated that while DP moans all the time that we're not spending enough time together he doesn't seem to want to compromise to the extent of considering living with me in London for a few years while we're both working there.

AIBU? Are we just fundamentally incompatible? It's turning into this awful stalemate and while I love him to absolute pieces it's really rubbing us both up the wrong way at the moment.

PS: Please don't be too harsh - I'm pretty period-ish and mis today

Agree, you need a counsellor - it is not good to be marrying someone with this sort of issue hovering.

Does the area you live in have to be north London? Places like Richmond have a countryish vibe (if you ignore the aircraft noise) and the huge spaces of the park, plus Kew Gardens nearby. Or there are commuter villages like Chorleywood. They're expensive but can't you rent somewhere round there - or the N London equivalent, instead of buying, while you rent out your own property?

Thanks for all the replies.

Runlola and Jux and others who've said be careful as you might regret moving away - this is exactly what I'm worried about. I love the buzz of London and worry particularly (we don't have DC yet but have been talking about ttc once I've finished my course) that if I simultaneously stop working for a bit with DC and move away from my friends and the buzz of London I'll just start dying slowly inside.

lurker When DP lived permanently in London, in both cases it was zone 3 or even further out (which I don't really class as London proper - that's zone 1 or 2 at a pinch). When he had the use of the flat in Central London he also had his place in the countryside. He's basing his antipathy to living entirely in London on his experience of areas that I'd consider the suburbs, which I don't think is fair.

Re central flat and weekend bolt hole, that was the plan - but each time we've started looking for a central flat he's gone along with it for a bit, and then started freaking out about actually doing it. I think this is what's been driving me bonkers really. He won't consider moving back permanently; we've talked about getting a 2nd place in London, looked at places, talked endlessly about it, but then when it comes to it he doesn't really want to do it. So if I want to stay with him the only remaining options seem to be either keeping separate households after we're married (which tbh seems a bit odd to me) or else my moving away from London, which would make completing my training more difficult.

In fairness though (and sorry if I'm dripfeeding, but it's all so involved that if I tried to say everything in my OP it'd be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too loooooooooooong) if we were to get a 2nd place it would be using his capital alone right now. Mine is tied up (a foreign property, and I'm renting in London atm) and due to recent economic shakiness in the eurozone is proving harder to liquidate than I'd anticipated. So effectively I'd be asking him to blow his entire savings/capital to accommodate my desire to be in London, when he just isn't that into London. I'd also be asking him to leave himself quite exposed debt-wise in a shaky economic climate. I don't really blame him for being reluctant to do that, both from the perspective of me contributing my share and also from the perspective of it being a risky thing to do. But until I can raise some capital there doesn't seem to be a way round it.

I would look at towns with very, very good train links into London. (As in, you want to be in a central London station in less than 30 minutes). Can you afford those towns and would you do that sort of commute?

The other compromise is look at properties in Zone 3 like Blackheath or Greenwich that don't really 'feel' like London, they very much have the villagey, community feeling (and feel more open with all that park) but you still would have good transport links. (Move to Greenwich and convince your DP to get a job at Canery Wharf, he could walk to work!)

Could you agree that London until you have DCs then moving out?

This is quite a big deal really, it's not just a decision about where you live, but what sort of lifestyle you want, and what sort of lifestyle you want your future DCs to live in. If you can't agree, that suggests you have other out look issues to be addressed, and trust me, it's best to decide you aren't compatable now than it is when you've got DCs.

TrompetteMilitaire you are fast becoming my favorite person.

As someone who has always been londoncentric I do understand that there is no reasoning that will cure the obsession. I've seen my DH hitting his head against that wall for 14 years.

But I do feel diff now. It's a bit unsettling to see all the posts against moving away, but in the past (years ago) I had this feeling 'what if I'm unhappy once we've moved' so refused to budge because I was dependent on external factors. Now I think I am so happy, why on earth would I not be happy somewhere else? It's a good decision for all concerned, not just what I want.

London feels like a bad relationship, dirty, fast, furious, passionate, and the sex is so good, but there's only so long that can be a good idea. Is relationship counseling what is needed, or London counseling?

The other key to deciding to go was finding the right place.

I think you need to find a nicer place to live within reach of London/your work!

OTheHuge - sympathise completely. DH moved to London 11 years ago to be with me, and then we moved to the suburbs five years later to be closer to his work. I commuted into town (have always worked in London). I absolutely HATED it - so much so, that DH got a new job in London and we moved back.

Four and a half years later, one child and one on the way, we've moved out of town again and we're both commuting. Much much happier this time round.

The difference this time is partly that while we were happy as a couple in a flat, it wouldn't work well with two children, and a house was really only affordable if we moved out. But the much bigger difference is that we've made a much better choice of location. We're now in a big town (Kingston) that is a 'place' in its own right, rather than just a suburb of London. It's got great shops, a good theatre and the Thames and Richmond Park on its doorstep - and London is only 30 minutes away if we want more. So, for us, it's been a brilliant compromise.

What you can't change is that you'll be seeing less of your London friends if you move away and this is one of the things I hated most about moving out before. This time, it bothers me less because I don't have as much free time as I used to. But, until you have children, you're going to want to maintain your social life.

In your shoes, I would be tempted to dig my heels in and say that you're staying in London until you finish your course, but you can plan to move once you know that children are on the way.

Wrt the money issue. If you get married, all assets are regarded as shared, so it really matters not whose assets are being used to purchase the flat. You sound like you both need to get into the habit of thinking as a married couple, rather than two single people........

@ TantrumTurtle!

FWIW, I am green with envy at your residence-to-be. Nobody could ever possibly not be happy there.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. It's been really helpful to think it all through out loud (as it were). I've just emailed DP setting out some of my feelings, and explaining that while I'm happy to leave London when we have DC it doesn't make sense right now because of my course - so suggesting we consider renting together rather than my personal place in London for now. I love him to bits and really want us to work, so am hoping we'll be able to find a compromise.

Renting certainly makes the most sense to me. Why not embark on a joint tour of (1) different areas of London, some central, some further out and villagey and (2) a couple of commuter towns eg St Albans - commutable into London, still reasonably buzzy?

However, leaving aside the question of where you live, the real issue seems to be the one Blu mentioned a while back - the fact that the two of you did not enjoy living together? Could I suggest that you find a place to rent, and try living together again, before you get married...?

minipie Again at the risk of dripfeeding, there were a few other issues when we were living together that I skipped in my OP because it'd have taken too long to explain otherwise. DP had a fairly severe stress-related breakdown, and I moved in with him in his place while he was still recovering. Looking back, it was a stupid thing to do, as he was still much more unwell than either of us realised: moods all over the place, easily exhausted, not a great way to start cohabiting.

Hindsight is a great thing, but I know now that what I should have done is (when I got the great job offer) sort out my living arrangements but stay in London (I needed to move at the time, again for reasons too boring to go into) and stay in London while he finished recovering. But I didn't, and as a result our first year of cohabiting was a good deal more stressful than it should have been as he was still moody and exhausted.

I don't think we're intrinsically unsuited to living together. But I don't want to move back into his place because it reminds me of some quite rough times: his breakdown was tough on both of us and I took a fair bit of flak just because I was there. Though he's well again now, and we still love each other, that house reminds me of those times iyswim.

I agree with you about the renting together for a bit thing. His objection is that we'd be throwing money away on someone else's mortgage. I'm trying to convince him that there are other considerations, and that we should see it as buying time and togetherness.

Finally, re St Albans and the like - I grew up in that area and hated it; I vowed as a teenager that I was going to leave and never go back. So there I'm being a bit U, I suppose. I feel I'd rather live either right in town, or else right in the boonies where it's quiet and rural and I can grow roses and see the horizon.

That makes sense. I do think renting together would be a good thing pre-marriage, just to check it'll work - and, even if you're sure it'll work, to smooth out any domestic squabbles before you get married so you don't spend the honeymoon period dealing with those!

To convince him about renting, you could point out how much money you'd be wasting if you bought somewhere, didn't like it, and then had to sell - all that stamp duty down the drain! Renting is a great way to test an area and see if it works for you both. To save money - could you rent out his place in t'country and cover (some of) the rent on the new place that way? or would you/he definitely want to keep it empty as a bolt hole.

I know what you mean about being either properly in London or right out in the sticks. I feel a bit that way too (Londoner born and bred!). But recently I've realised that for me, that feeling is totally irrational. When I look at how I enjoy spending my time (visiting the local parks and shops, meeting friends locally), pretty much all of it could be done just as happily in any suburb or mid size town, as it could in London. I suppose it depends on what you enjoy doing - ie are your favourite pursuits central London pursuits, rural pursuits, or suburban pursuits? I have to admit mine are suburban, mostly.

.. also think if you're asking him to consider London, you should probably consider the "mid way" options in return!

Not really seeing the problem here... You get an out of town house which is BOTH of yours - so you have space for your stuff, input into decoration etc. and a flat in London big enough for both of you to stay and near to your work commitments. Then travel between the two.

If he decides to stay in the country, you just continue to crash in London during the week and maybe downsize the flat in order to offset buying main residence.

There's no rule which says that because you're married you must be under the same roof every night. Good god, having the same bedroom is a relatively modern thing - Victorians would have thought having to share MOST uncivilised and had separate male/female spaces all the time.

Sell up all your properties. Buy a house together in the country. Rent a flat in London. Sleep where you each like on any given night.

"He won't consider moving back permanently ... he doesn't really want to do it. So if I want to stay with him the only remaining options seem to be either keeping separate households ... or else my moving away from London"

So absolutely no compromise on his side? Won't he even consider it on a temporary basis?

don't do it. the country is for (occasional) weekends and retirement. you'll wind up resenting him and not being able to afford to move back.

Oh god not the suburbs!! It's a living hell and neither one thing or the other.

We have a little joke when we go and see some friends of ours who live in typical suburbia - on the way out I make DH promise to shoot me if I ever suggest moving there!

There's no shops, no culture, no buzz and far too many alpha mummies. And it's not like being in the country because everyone curtain twitches and you still can't let your kids play out in the street.

Update: I had a long chat with DP and we've agreed to look at renting in London for now. We discussed longer-term plans as well, including leaving the UK altogether - which for some reason I find more appealing than moving to the suburbs or the Home Counties so am quite up for. Maybe South Africa or Canada just feels more exciting than Watford or Bushey can't think why

I left London a few years ago and regret it nearly every day, even though we'd have been totally potless if we'd stayed. I'd swop a mildly dull commutable town like Surbiton etc. for the backwards provincial hell I've found myself in 200 miles away :(

Renting while house prices are falling (as they will be for the next year or three) is a good move.
And it means you have flexibility
Good call
Rent near a big park and he can get his fix of trees!

I'm amazed by some of the views here. If you find that you are living in a 'backwards provincial hell' just because it's not London, you need to change your attitude and approach. Believe me, there is nothing more irksome to provincial folk than refugees from London banging on about how brilliant London is. It does not make friends!

Spout well said. So glad to hear someone standing up for the suburbs. :)

Well done, OP, good compromise

I would say try somewhere a bit outside both your comfort zones - ie more urban than he'd ike, but more 'burby than you would. I lived in zone 1 for 15 years and though I'd have to be carried out in a box but now I am in zone 2/3 in a very leafy part of London and I love it and dh, who was keener than me on escaping altogether, loves it too and is v glad not to commute. Good luck.

The best bit of advice my mum ever gave me was "if you love him enough to marry him, you'd move to the ends of the earth with him". I didn't marry him. But I did marry "Mr Right" four years later . 20 years on he wants to leave London but we are going to compromise when the dc finish school and buy a big central London flat and a weekend home in the sticks countryside.