to wish that SIL would stop saying BIL "won't let me do" things before I slap both of them sharpish?

[CheerfulYank]

UGH! This is more of a rant. Be warned.

We were at a family gathering this weekend and SIL (she's married to DH's brother) brought up clotheslines for some reason and said "Well DH won't let me have one as it would spoil our view." She says things like this all the time "DH wouldn't let me put that rug in DD's room even if I bought it" "DH wouldn't let DS go to gymnastics even if he wanted to" and on and on and on. She does it in a jokey "ain't men awful" kind of way and it makes my teeth itch.

She is walked all over by her DH and her DC (her DD, who is 4, yelled at her because SIL told her to stop singing "Holy shit" to the tune of Old McDonald; both DCs slap her, etc) but she seems to enjoy martyrdom. (i.e "the kids are SUCH picky eaters, they won't eat a thing" "the kids won't sleep through the night unless we lie with them, I'm so tired" ) etc etc.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHH!

Okay, rant over.

IMO there's not a lot worse than tongue piercing by default. I have to do it so much in my professional life that I seriously struggle to have the patience to grin and bear it outside of work.

At least you're in the good company of others whose eyebrows have also disappeared into their hairlines and whose eyes are rolling like dice, and it sounds as if you all try to treat your SIL kindly and endeavour not have too many laughs at her expense while she's present.

It's very thoughtful of you to consider how it may make your SIL feel when she gets it so wrong. Does she have a different persona when you're alone with her, or is she simply less bright than her ILs?

Do you think that slavish obedience to her dh is her way of trying to fit in with his family?

Oh, she's pretty much the same when we're together. It is supremely annoying but also I just feel bad sometimes.

At DS's birthday party my niece slapped her twice and my nephew refused to move away from DS while he was opening presents despite her literally begging him to. I could tell she was embarrassed but if anyone tries to help they get the look of death.

Also the food thing...she goes on and on about their habits in front of them and always brings extra food to family gatherings even though there is usually something they will eat there. She's done it since they were just babies and starting to eat solid food, so I feel like they never really got the chance to eat normally. She asked me how I got DS to eat "so well" (he just eats normally!) and I said, "Oh, I just don't offer him anything else." She said "no, really."

Also my MIL is very derisive of the fact that SIL and BIL lie down on blankets beside their DCs beds' every night until they fall asleep and always have done. (My nephew is 6 and my niece is 4.) I try to say "well, all kids sleep differently" or something, but...

I guess it wouldn't be such a big deal but she's just so...martyr-ish about everything! I mean, if your kids will only eat chicken fingers, whatever! But then just say "you know, this isn't a battle I'm going to fight and the pediatrician says he's fine." Don't sit there and whine and moan about how hard your life is and how they won't eat anything! GRRR!

Wow, this is better than therapy... :o

I have the same thing with my DSis. It doesn't help that her OH is an absolute nobber and we all hate him anyway.

I think a lot of it's for attention as I used to say tell him to jog on, and get on my high horse but have learnt to keep it shut now.

Just smile and nod...

ooh, cheerful, I've never know you to be so, erm, uncheerful!

just grin & nod if she won't accept any help. not much else you can do.

or give her 'wifework' for christmas.

Please don't slap them.

Allow me. :o

God, SIL would drive me nuts, 10/10 for keeping your patience with the pair of them so far!

CY - so your DH is her DH's brother?

Does he really not let her do things, or does she just say this?

I'm guessing your DH isn't such an arse - it's a wonder how they turned out so differently!

I know kickass ! It really isn't like me! But it is just so frustrating and things like the food thing (and the behavior thing)...I feel like they're coming to a head because DS is older now (4, he and my niece are exactly a week apart) and notices. (They comment on what he eats, etc)

Yes, Tilly, our DH's are brothers and are nothing alike. Actually BIL is not like anyone else in the family, except FIL, a little. For a long time he (BIL) was the baby and the only boy, so I think that he was kind of excused in his behavior for a long time. Also my other SILs (DH's sisters) have chosen not to have children, and BIL has two and built a house on the ILs farmland, so I think my PIL appreciate that he has kept their GC close. I don't know! And SIL's parents are barking to be honest, and I know she really does the best she can, considering. (Her parents have instilled a strong terror of dogs, doctors, bugs, frogs, mold, and strangers into her. For instance she is not "allowed" to take the children basically to ANY public place in December as they will obviously be kidnapped by another holiday shopper. Sadly she has passed a lot of these fears onto my nephew and niece.)

Honestly I don't think he "lets" or "doesn't let" her do anything. He's just a generally grumpy and unpleasant sort of person. I'm not sure if she just uses it as an excuse? Once the other SILs and I were shopping with her and we saw an adorable rug for our niece's room and urged her to get it. (She's always asking about different decorating things because BIL doesn't "let" her hang pictures...ruins the walls, don't you know ) She said "Oh no, DH wouldn't like that rug." My oldest SIL (whom I adore, though she is scarily competent and very intimidating :) ) said "well tell him where to stick it! It's a rug FFS!" SIL didn't buy it in the end, and honestly I can't see BIL even noticing that she'd gotten a rug! So maybe she just didn't like it and was using that as an excuse?

I don't know. I know it really doesn't affect me personally, but it is irritating and I don't want any of this nonsense rubbing off on DS. (I've already had to pull BIL aside and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is to keep his gob shut in front of DS when it comes to 1)any racist remarks 2) the term "gay" used in derogatory fashion or 3) any negative comments about DS being in gymnastics. Which he doesn't do anymore because he doesn't like it but I almost wanted to tell knob-head BIL that he was still in it just to stick it to him Which is also unlike me.)

AND BREATHE!

I think it's just a phrase, I say it sometimes.

Dh isn't allowed a motorcycle.

He wasn't allowed to cook bacon in the house when I had mornign sickness.

Obviously I can do whatever I want and so can Dh for that matter but if something is going to cause an argument and wind dh up.. I'll say oh I'm not "allowed". It doesn't really mean anything.

It's kinda easy to feel a tad sorry for your dsil given that her dps are raving fruityloops; imagine living with all of those fears? At the same time, she sounds exactly the type of woman that I want to shake (or do I mean shock?) till she rattles.

Part of me wants to give your sil intensive therapy to put her on the path to confidence in herself; the other wants to administer a series of sharp shocks that will bypass the tedium of her navel gazing and wake her up to the joys of life.

You're right - this is like Lucy's psychiatric booth in the Peanuts strip; the doctor is in, that'll be 5 cents please!! Sad thing is that it may be your dns that'll need therapy and it'll cost a lot more than a nickel - but that's for the future.

I don't think you should worry unduly about any of their crap rubbing off onto your ds; you're well-grounded, more than capable of counteracting any/all of their nonsense, and I have no doubt that your ds will cheerfully (slight pun intended) follow your lead.

Your ds will be making his own comparisons soon and, if they're not allowed to go places that he enjoys, he'll be wondering why his cousins' lives are somewhat restricted. If he hasn't done so already, he'll notice the way they behave around mealtimes, their rudeness to their dm, and he'll be comparing their behaviour with other of his peers.

In the meantime, may I again suggest a gift of singing lessons for your d.niece with the addition of ballet classes for your d.nephew? And perhaps a large set of extremely loud drums for the two of them for Christmas - presupposing they haven't been kidnapped from the mall/cinema/theatre/skating rink before Santa makes his rounds.

Thanks Izzy . You've hit it right on the head as usual. :)

I feel sorry for her, she is being walked over, and I suspect she feels its not right but doesn't know what to do to sort it. IMO she is looking for some sort of support but is approaching it wrongly.

I'm not really sure how to support her, honestly, Worry . :( I feel that too sometimes, and I want to help, but other times I just want to give her a brisk shake and tell her to get a grip and the world will not bloody end if my nephew walks through tall grass! (Might be ticks, you know. Lyme disease. )

Do you have any suggestions? Or should I just do as I have done and keep myself to myself except for whining on Mumsnet after every family gathering ?

This reminds me of my mother.

All my life she has been saying my father won't allow this or that. When I would question this she would laugh in an exaggerated way indicating incredulation and horror and indicate it was not worth my father's black moods pushing her point over this particular issue. I used to really resent my father for this as a child [and make no mistake, he is somewhat selfish and controlling] however over the years I have come to realise that my mother has received benefits from being the "little woman", namely that she does not take responsibility for decisions made and can play the martyr which she finds very satisfying.

As an adult I now also realise how she manipulates others into doing for her by pretending to not be strong enough to do it for herself [drive somewhere, fill the car with petrol, buy something expensive that she needs] or that my father will not allow her to do it. So my brother and I were coerced into the role of semi-parenting/cosseting her and filling in the gaps caused by her inabilities and my father's "decisions".

But I digress. I wonder what benefit your SIL receives from this arrangement? And how does your BIL feel about being blamed as the cause for her inaction/indecision/weakness? Perhaps as in my parent's case his reputation is not entirely deserved?

Oh, and just interesting how these issues are passed down the generations...

My brother is married to a woman very similar in some respects to my mother. She also defers to my brother on all major decisions and wants him to take responsibility for difficult stuff [house repairs, finances, their eldest daughters SN] but plays the martyr beautifully, complaining that my brother does not much to help her around the house and then in the same breath complains about all the ironing [she is obsessed with it] there is to do. Well, just leave his ironing then for him to do I say. Oh no, she can't do that, it's much more satisfying [simpler?] to be seen to be working your fingers to the bone on relatively inconsequential stuff than tackle the bigger issues.

I really like her by the way [truly!] but her little woman routine drives me nuts!

Your SIL is a twat. I've said it before, but it bears repeating.

Do you have any suggestions? Or should I just do as I have done and keep myself to myself

Feeling sorry doesn't mean not getting as irritated as heck and wanting to shake them by the neck :)

I suppose you've done all the "Surely he can't object about X" and then been led down long rabbit hole tales etc about why its not possible.

Listening, saying nowt and venting on MN seems about the best option IMO - love the Peanuts analogy :)

Just don't get into the trap of trying to get her to change, that's all I can say. She can only change if she wants to, and no amount of encouragement/advice from you will make a difference.

But yes, frustrating. And it's the fact that they say these things isn't it? I mean, really, won't they just shut up and stop dragging is in to their 'battles' if these are actually the way they choose to live their lives. Both my mother and one sister are very similar to how you describe - although genuinely they do let their husbands make all of the decisions. They could stand up for themselves, but they won't. So what do they expect is going to happen - are their husbands going to bend over backwards to insist on equality? No, because these aren't the kind of husbands they picked.

Well I am not surprised that her children ignore her, they have zero respect for her. And why should they have when she has no respect for herself?
The worst thing is not that she allows herself to be treated like a second class citizen, but that this is the role model which her kids see. They see that a woman/mother is to be treated like dirt and there is no excuse for setting that example.
I don't know how you manage to get through an evening with them tbh. I would either have to drift off into another sane world or give her the "are you crazy" look.
They all sound like a nightmare to be around.

I can see why you'd find it irritating - I would too - but I feel really sorry for the SIL. No one enjoys being slapped by their DC or encourages it FGS. The DC have no respect for their mother because she is unable to enforce it. Either because she's slightly messed up or more likely I'd say because her DH is not treating her with any.

I have seen many a mother be run over by her DC because as the DC get older they see that the way their father behaves gets results and mum is unable to stand up to it. So they copy it.

Either way, why is no one blaming the father for the kids' poor behaviour? Why is it always the mother's fault?

Women who are treated as second-class citizens in their relationships quite often adopt a martyred approach. It's a coping mechanism, since the only other option available to them is to leave - a psychological step too far for many and who's going to leave over something like a rug - after all, it's not like he's hitting her...

Sadly, you're all right in the sense that the only person who will manage to make this situation better is the mother. The kids are too young to understand or change anything and I doubt the BIL will change any time soon. However, none of that takes away from the fact that there are TWO people in this relationship and TWO parents. Either the BIL is keeping his wife down or she's an irritating self-sacrificing type who is damaging her kids with her ineffectual parenting and lack of boundaries (in which case why isn't HE doing something about it).

My BIL thinks that the mother is primarily in charge of the kids, I think, and doesn't really interfere much.

When my nephew was younger (maybe 2 or 3) he came out of their bedroom holding a stick of my BIL's deodorant. He looked like he was going to take a bite out of it for some reason, and my SIL shrieked "DS! If you eat that you'll have to go to the doctor and get shots!" And then wonders why she has to drag them kicking and screaming for their checkups...because she has made them bloody terrified of the doctor, that's why!

Anyway, BIL looked at her askance but said nothing. He really never does. And he's a "macho" type of guy and he makes fun of my nephew for being afraid of everything, which isn't fair because he doesn't say anything when SIL is instilling these daft fears into my nephew's head.

They rarely come over to our house, but when they do I always encourage them to pet our dog or throw the ball for him. (He's a very big golden retriever mix, but gentle as they come) Sometimes they will. But once when they were leaving my niece and nephew were having tantrums because they didn't want to go and my SIL said "oh, the dog's going to get out and chase you!" No, he damn well will not! I just said "Oh, no, he love kids. He might lick you, but that's it! Now come on, it's time to go but come back soon!"

And at DS' last birthday party it was boiling hot and I told her to bring the DC's swimsuits so they could play on the slip 'n' slide and in the pool. She didn't. When she got here she said "Oh, they don't like cold water." (I think she thinks cold water will make them sick ) I took her aside and said I could find shorts for the DC to swim in, it would be no problem, but she just said "oh, they'll get cold and whiny, they won't like it, etc, etc" Meanwhile DS was having the time of his life leaping around in the water and her DCs were begging her to let them go in. She kept telling them that DS looked cold, and was "dirty, see, he has grass on his face, that doesn't look like fun!" but of course it did, it was 37 degrees out! Finally BIL said "just let them go in". She protested but then finally did. They had a ball.

Sorry, I know this is long and sounds really petty, but I feel like I am going to explode if I have to sit through another family gathering anytime soon!

Yank - you said 37 degrees i bow to you, my friend, sooo few yanks know about Centigrade.

Gosh, you are smart.

you're also right about your sil - you should try doing a 'wife swap' with her, it would be perfect.

Why thank you, kickass :) I had to Google it

You are able to see the cause of all the unnecessary inhibitions your dns may take on board merely because their dm is exhibiting the irrationality that she learned from her dps, but the woman is such a limp dishrag you know that administering a quick, or a long, spray of starch isn't going to help any.

However, your dns sound brattish spirited and it may be that they'll simply override their dm and will grow up to be as insensitive and/or indifferent to her as your bil sounds.

Maybe your dns saving grace will be the strong women, including yourself, in your dh's family? In the meantime, as frustrating as it may be (and I just bet it itches a lot!) it seems that all you can do is carry on doing what you have been doing, counteract her negatvity with your sound commonsense approach to parenting, and let nature take its course.

And come back to here to regale us with more tales of the poor woman's Mrs Fruitiloops excesses

The shrink is out - no charge!

What does she do when her kids slap her??
Seriously, I know what I'd do!!!!
Time-out for both, a beloved toy taken away for a good while, and a sharp comment to your SIL that martyrs are nothing but a pain in the ass!
I'll slap her for you if you want :o