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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To return to the UK to give birth to my second child so that all my children have equal opportunities

89 replies

supergrover · 19/08/2011 12:25

I am currently living in the US and am pregnant with my 2nd child who is due to be born here and will therefore be a US citizen, have a US passport and be able to live and work in the US without any need for a visa in the future.

My issue is that my older daughter was born in the UK and will only have British citizenship.

I just feel that it seems so unfair that I am giving my second child so much more opportunities than my first and am wondering if I should return to the UK to give birth to prevent any resentment / jealousy issues in the future.

Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:

LongWayRound · 19/08/2011 13:55

milkshakejake There is a difference between someone applying for US citizenship, and someone who has dual nationality from birth.

Naturalisation: a citizen of A applies for new nationality B. In this case they might well lose the original nationality A, either because A withdraws the nationality of citizens who have applied for naturalisation elsewhere, or because B insists on it as a condition of naturalisation.
Dual nationality from birth. One country cannot insist that the child renounces the other. Though in some cases, eg I think France, a child with dual nationality has to decide at 18 whether to keep French nationality or not.

Scenario 1: my father had to renounce German nationality when he applied for British citizenship. Scenario 2: I have both nationalities because I had them from birth. Unless I am very much mistaken, the British authorities have no power to withdraw my German citizenship and vice versa. AFAIK, there are some countries (particularly countries of high emigration) which do not permit their citizens to renounce their nationality under any circumstances. Basically nationality law is quite complicated :), but in this case I don't think the OP needs to worry.

lachesis · 19/08/2011 15:07

'I was told that you're not allowed to be 'dual-nationality' in the States - they make you give up any other nationality when you become a citizen. '

That's only for people naturalising as US nationals, and then there is nothing to stop them going to their home country and getting another passport.

From birth nationality, I know more than a few born in the US who hold passports for two other countries. I even worked with a man born in the US to a Canadian father and Argentinian mother. He had three passports and then, through working in the UK under a sponsored work permit so many years, because a UK national as well. We used to call him Jason Bourne.

paddyclamp · 19/08/2011 17:22

My mum could have naturalized..she would have had to take the oath of allegiance in which she'd have had to say she was renouncing her UK citizenship...but the UK doesn't recognize the renunciation....dual nationality is def allowed...i have it...unless i am breaking some kind of law i don't know about!

foreverondiet · 19/08/2011 17:26

The birth will not be covered by the NHS if you are not living here, even if you are a UK citizen, so you'll have to pay privately.

coccyx · 19/08/2011 17:33

If the Us will give first born so many more advantages, then why are you running back here to use NHS resources in poor old Uk

GrendelsMum · 19/08/2011 17:36

Well, a friend actually ended up with various minor disadvantages from having been born in the US, so I wouldn't worry about it one way or another.

minipie · 19/08/2011 17:43

"am wondering if I should return to the UK to give birth to prevent any resentment / jealousy issues in the future"

I cannot imagine any sensible person being "resentful" that their sibling has an extra nationality simply because their parents happened to be living in a different country at the time of their birth.

There will inevitably be lots of things that are different about any second child's upbringing to the first child's upbringing. For example, your DC1 will have had the advantage of having one on one parental attention for the first years of their life. Your DC2 will never have this. There are some things that are just unequal. You can't guarantee equality in everything, so why worry about this particular inequality.

Also, I think the practicalities of trying to return to the UK just to give birth would be very difficult. Your medical notes from pregnancy would be in the US system. You would not be able to fly after a certain point in the pregnancy. You would have to fly back with a newborn (after you've got a passport for them, which takes a looong time). Would your DH/DP be able to go with you? If not then that means you'd be without him. You would not be able to take much stuff with you, so would not have a lot of the newborn "kit". Would you have to take DC1 with you - if so that adds a whole lot more complication. And so on.

minipie · 19/08/2011 17:43

PS I have dual UK/US nationality due to being born in the US. It's been nothing but a pain.

Tarenath · 19/08/2011 17:46

What's to stop you from applying for citizenship? Your eldest child would then acquire it by default as I understand it, as long as she is under 18.

flyingspaghettimonster · 19/08/2011 18:17

I wondered the same thing - I feel bad that my youngest child has both US and UK citizenship and worry that his older siblings, who have lived here since they were young, will be devastated if they have to leave in the future. But - why would you want to deny your child more opportunities? He or she can sponsor you for citizenship when they are 21, and then when you are a citizen you can sponsor your other kids... so I would go for the US birth option - also the experience was a lot better, private room and meds on demand.

fedupofnamechanging · 19/08/2011 19:12

Can you not just register dc2 as a British citizen. If she wants US citizenship later, could she not get it pretty automatically on the grounds that she was born there?

microserf · 19/08/2011 19:21

did you consider that the US is the one of the few countries that imposes a worldwide tax burden on its citizens? US citizens often have to pay a minimum tax on their earnings, even if the funds are earned overseas.

i think you've overthought this. my children were born in different countries, and we're not overly bothered by the difference in nationality. in the end, the logistics will be difficult to manage anyway. i'd stay where you are!

MadamDeathstare · 19/08/2011 19:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsBananaGrabber · 19/08/2011 19:27

One of my DC's was born in Canada, she has duel citizenship. Tis just way things worked out, I didn't even think about it.

Laquitar · 19/08/2011 19:55

Apart from the fact that you dont know which citizenship will be more useful for your dcs in the long term you really have to be careful of the way you think. When you have more than one children situations like this arise all the time and while we all try to be fair to all our dcs you dont take something from one child only because the other didn't have it. I know parents who have stoped a very talented child from dance lessons because the other child didn't want to go. Also, if you overthink about jelousy and resentment you might actually create it.

cerealqueen · 19/08/2011 20:05

Rather bizarre reasoning. How will you keep up this equality in all things all their lives??

I'd not sure you'd be able to anyway, not on the NHS, lots of Trusts being very stringent these days about health tourists, you have to prove residency.

Accept things for what they are, am sure your children will understand when they are old enough.

Takeresponsibility · 19/08/2011 20:06

Mrs Banana-Grabber: Duel-nationality, talk about fight for your rights!

Everyone, please don't take advice on Nationality law based on what your friend told you, or even worse Wikipedia!

British Nationality law is horrendously complicated as it has evolved rather than being one straightforward Act of parliament.

Get proper advice, in writing, from the Home Office.

paddyclamp · 19/08/2011 20:55

Sorry if you've already answered this...but is there no way your visa can be extended or that you can apply for a green card...i'm guessing that the fact that you are in the country in the first place means that there's hope?

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/08/2011 20:58

Personally if I lived in the US I'd go back to the UK for the better standard of maternity care. I know nothing about this 'opportunities' issue, though.

MadamDeathstare · 20/08/2011 02:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBride · 20/08/2011 02:45

OP- FWIW, I don't think you're being completely ridiculous. Maybe I am another over-thinker, but I was thinking the other day that if we stayed where we are long enough to get permanent residency for one child, we should also stay to get it for the other one. However, US nationality isn't a one way street of benefit.

As someone already pointed out, yes, they can rock up to the US whenever they want BUT they'd also have to pay US taxes even if living in a low tax country like many Middle Eastern or Asian countries, which sucks, so tbh I'd rather not have the US passport.

TillyIpswitch · 20/08/2011 02:52

Are you absolutely sure that being born in the US entitles you to US citizenship, even if the parents are not US citizens?

How would that work?

If you and your DH are not citizens, then you're obviously going to eventually be obliged to leave the country. You will have to take your child (a dependant) who is a US citizen with you.

So a US citizen is effectively be ejected from the country, since said US citizen is a dependent and needs its parents to care for it. How can it be legal for a citizen to ejected from its own country?

PreviouslyonLost · 20/08/2011 04:33

lachesis .... 'I even worked with a man born in the US to a Canadian father and Argentinian mother. He had three passports and then, through working in the UK under a sponsored work permit so many years, because a UK national as well. We used to call him Jason Bourne' ......

That made me laugh .

CurrySpice · 20/08/2011 04:38

OP "orn in the UK and will only have British citizenship"

Only. Nice!

LolaRennt · 20/08/2011 05:37

Your new dc might be allowed citizenship but they couldn't pass it on if their child wasn't born in the country anyway due to strict rules which means if they already have a family they won't be helped anyway

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