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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

About access over our land...

67 replies

YellowDinosaur · 13/08/2011 21:06

Cross posted to legal but higher traffic here so hoping for some advice...

We live on a new build estate in a town house on the end of a terrace of 7 similar properties. We all back onto a shared back lane that our detached garages also adjoin. We each own the portion of this back lane that is adjacent to our back gardens as well as the strip immediately in front of our garages. But access is guaranteed to the other 6 houses in the terrace to get in and out of this back lane. There is no gate accross this lane though so it might not be immediately obvious to others that this is private land. If it si relevant we are on the end of the terrace where the access point to the back lane is - the other end is blocked off by garages.

With me so far? Good.

Next to the entrance to the back lane is a detached house who has a driveway on the other side of their house. They have a wall to their back garden that adjoins this back lane and our garage / area immediately in front of our garage. They do not own or have right of access onto our shared back lane.

Recently new people bought this house and they are in the process of extending it and landscaping the garden. Today it was pointed out to me that they have put in a gate out of the back of their garden that leads into our back lane and opens onto the area immediately in front of our garage (so land belonging to dh and I). They will also have to cross 2 other neighbours land in order to get out of the back lane as well as ours.

Now dh and I are both reasonable easy going people. In principle we don't mind these people having access over our land in a way that will not impact at all on our quality of life, assuming that they too are reasonable people. And from talking to our other neighbours apparently since it has been pointed out to them that this is private land they have tried to come and speak to us but we have been out.

Our concern however is that if we were to sell in the future that if we have allowed this to go on it may affect the sale firstly because prospective buyers may decide that they don't want to allow this access and secondly because if we allow it I seem to remember there comes a point when because it has been allowed it must be able to continue.

Can anyone put me right on the legalitites of this before we go and talk to them tomorrow? In principle we don't mind but don't want to be setting any precedents that we couldn't over turn if we wished to sell and the future buyers didn't like the set up. Are we unreasonable to be worrying about this?

OP posts:

BBQFrenzy · 15/08/2011 00:21

Good luck OP - glad to see the property law squad turned up to correct me! Never heard of wayleave agreement (although as soon as I saw Tilly's mention of easements I was reminded just how much I have forgotten!)

I would strongly second Orchidee's advice on how not to make this your problem (joint or sole) to solve for them - very good points to bear in mind when you speak to them.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 15/08/2011 08:41

YellowDinosaur..what a good thread and interesting to see how helpful it has been for you, and how it helped you realised that actually this would be a problem for you.

You now want to know how to handle it, and are worried about seeming to be a bad neighbour, so I second the advice below from Orchidee but also from ShoutyHamster that they have started this on the wrong foot and if they take offence then they weren't likely to be good neighbours anyway. It also doesn't help you that your other Neighbours don't seem to mind (sorry about stupid iPad capitalization of Neighbours) so you feel like the bad guy. But of course your other Neighbours aren't affected in the same way.

So I think a simple conversation today which could go like this: I am sorry to have to tell you that you cannot put a gate there. This piece of land is private land and you don't have access to it. I am so sorry you have wasted your money but if you had asked beforehand I would have explained it to you. Would you like me to get you a lawyers letter explaining this or are you happy to sort it out from this conversation?

If they then go on to say oh but can't we just do so, keep repeating no, sorry this is private land, and I have always been told by lawyers not to mess around with legal boundaries. I am sorry, I don't want to be unfriendly but it is a legal issue and you may not use that gate as this is private land. I am sure you understand that legal advice is something I have to take.

Do let us know how it goes! And good luck.

Original poster

YellowDinosaur · 15/08/2011 09:31

Cheers all - this has been massively helpful! Dh and I talked it through yet again last night and we're definately sure that saying no to the gate is the right way to go. Not making it our problem to solve and just going on about it being a legal issue is good advice as is the point that if they are unreasonable about us pointing this out then they owuldn't have been good neighbours in the first place.

We also looked at their planning consent online last night for the extension they are building. It states we were consulted (by planning office not neighbour) which is a lie although we would not have objected to any of it so no point being funny about it now. It does however clearly say that they do not need to change the pedestrian access which they now have so its a possibility that if they turn nasty about this we can get the planning office onside to help sort it out.

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted!

OP posts:

pointydog · 15/08/2011 09:34

Speak to your solicitor. You are right that this could people off buying your house in future and could lead to all sorts of other legal problems. I experienced something similar to this once.

pointydog · 15/08/2011 09:36

I'd check out facts with the council too. Surprised that this wasn't flagged up at planning permission stage.

MisSalLaneous · 15/08/2011 10:00

Yellow, if they've already lied on the planning application, I think you had a lucky escape here. I suspect they'll either be annoyed about you saying no and get difficult, or they'll just go ahead anyway. Hopefully I'm wrong, but just going ahead putting in a gate without consultation combined with lying on application from sounds like very entitled people to me.

Ormirian · 15/08/2011 10:07

They are either amazingly naive or trying it on.

orchidee · 15/08/2011 14:23

Good idea to have looked online for planning consent. You may have saved yourselves and the shared driveway/terraced neighbours some future hassle - and if it were me, it'd really rankle to spend my time and money on a legal challenge because I'd done someone a favour.

It sounds like the detached neighbours have a casual attitude to property. Perhaps you could use their garden / bins etc now that they've kindly provided access via the new gate?

Original poster

YellowDinosaur · 16/08/2011 16:38

Thanks all for your helpful advice.

Couldn't catch them yesterday but dh spoke to her today while I was at work. they hadn't realised it was private land and she offered to put the fence back without him even asking. He explained that in principle we couldn't care less about them having access but that our concern was problems in the future if we wanted to sell our house or if someone who was unreasonable bought theirs, and the potential for legal costs etc if there were issues surrounding this. She totally understood and the fence has already been put back!

So a result I think! Thanks again everyone who contributed here

OP posts:

fedupofnamechanging · 16/08/2011 16:39

lovely result.

TalkinPeace2 · 16/08/2011 16:40

excellent

zipzap · 16/08/2011 19:27

Great result

Whisper... Do you think she read this thread?

MisSalLaneous · 16/08/2011 21:34

That is brilliant news! Oh wow, not what I expected. Sounds like they'll be nice neighbours or MN'ers after all. :)

Original poster

YellowDinosaur · 16/08/2011 22:20

hmmm...

Come on then own up who is my neighbour?! You are right it was all far too easy

OP posts:

Mitmoo · 17/08/2011 08:50

Good news Yellow I am sure it is a big relief.

iskra · 17/08/2011 09:10

It states we were consulted (by planning office not neighbour) which is a lie although we would not have objected to any of it so no point being funny about it now.

For future ref, our council always wrote to us about planning applications addressed to "The Occupier, Our Flat" - the sort of letter you easily bin unopened expecting it to be some sort of junk. I got really careful about opening those ones & checking whether there was a planning application I wanted to object to!

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 17/08/2011 11:20

So nice to see a happy resolution and looks like they can be the sort of neighbours you can share a with after all! Hurrah!

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