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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not want to go to the zoo?

71 replies

MilaV · 10/08/2011 22:47

I find it depressing, animals have so little space. None of my friends seem to share my views, they keep insisting we go (the ones with children as well as the ones who don't - zoo lates have become so popular). I don't wat to point it out or say anything not to look preachy. But seriously, do people not think about this??? I feel so bad every time I see an ad on the tube (that penguin beach, or any other photoshopped image showing the animals having "fun"). Life in zoos for animals is terrible :(

OP posts:
NeedaCostume · 10/08/2011 23:09

I think Whipsnade and Woburn are both great. If you don't want to go, just say no.

Ungratefulchild · 10/08/2011 23:10

I also preach, people roll their eyes a lot but I don't care.

GypsyMoth · 10/08/2011 23:10

london zoo is very run down,i agree.

Tangle · 10/08/2011 23:10

I think more work could be done to make zoos a better environment for animals - some are better than others and some tolerate captivity better than others.

There are natural reserves, but policing them and keeping the animals safe from poachers is an ongoing battle and one that is not being won in all areas. Zoos have their faults and there will always be room for improvement - but they do essential work to try and keep viable populations of endangered species, both in captivity and in the wild.

Jajas · 10/08/2011 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MilaV · 10/08/2011 23:11

@needacostume I know, that's what I've been doing, saying "no thanks", but I find it so hard to bite my tongue, yet I know I should, because who am I to ruin other's people idea of fun? And how can they not see it for themselves?

OP posts:
ClaireDeLoon · 10/08/2011 23:17

I don't see why anyone should bite their tongue in giving their opinion on zoos. Your opinion is thought out and considered, it is just that it doesn't come down on the side of its 'fun looking at the animals'. Don't feel bad for your beliefs.

WilsonFrickett · 10/08/2011 23:38

Nope, I hate zoos. Loathe them in fact and really don't buy the whole 'conservation' angle. If they really believed in conservation they would sell their lands and wind up their trusts and put their money into supporting endagered animals in their native habitats.

It's the principal. It's not enough to say 'zoo X has a big tiger enclosure' - we should be questioning the need to go and look at captive tigers in the first place. They are Victorian left-overs.

.

midlandsmumof4 · 10/08/2011 23:47

There are zoos & zoos I think. I was taken to our local one (Dudley) quite often as a child when you were allowed to ride the elephants and I took my eldest there when he was about 18 months (he's now 28!!). I think that was the last time. Remember the chairlift? I haven't visited since due to the fact that at one time they had a famous killer whale there Shock & Angry. However, I believe its improved considerably over the years and is now more leaning to conservation of species. So I might-just might-visit with my GK. Anyone been recently?

Tangle · 11/08/2011 08:45

WilsonFrickett - isn't there benefit in running a zoo as a means to make money that can be utilised for conservation purposes? Isn't a constant revenue stream more useful than a one off payment (even if substantial)?

I do think that some zoos are better than others and some animals are more appropriate in a zoo environment than others. But our local zoo charges £40 - £60 for a family ticket (depending on season) - how many people would donate that to animal conservation if they didn't get to take their kids to go an gawp at the animals?

DizzyKipper · 11/08/2011 09:05

A lot of research is put into enrichment programmes to enable animals to live as natural lives as possible, meeting both their physical and psychological needs. If they are able to meet both then the animal will be content and is not unreasonable to keep them considering conservation programmes. if they can't meet these needs then they shouldn't keep them, it will be easier to meet some than others. I don't think all animals should be kept in zoos for those reasons, but think you're unreasonable to make a blanket statement about ALL of them.

AuntieMonica · 11/08/2011 09:26

midlandsmumof4

we were at Dudley 2 weeks ago, i was impressed! the walk through compounds with tiny monkeys/birds/water falls etc were probably the most realistic zoo settings i've ever seen.

there are a few really run-down compounds, but nothing is in there, a legacy of the days you mention Wink

the chair lift no longer runs, but the castle and grounds are great for DCs to run about (if they've got any energy left after the steep climb up) ice creams/food/drinks etc are all very reasonably priced (freshly made cheese onion baguette, £2.00) and if you print this out you get free child tickets too!

pointydog · 11/08/2011 09:31

How often do your pals go to the zoo? It costs a small fortune to go to the zoo. Definitely nothing more than a once-a-year trip.

ZZZenAgain · 11/08/2011 09:43

if you have been there recently and you were distressed at what you saw, I don't see why you have to go there again. Just say, you feel uncomfortable with the animals in cages, it just isn't your thing.

I remember once a rhino indoors with just a bit of concrete to walk about on. Probably it was indoors for a specific reason but had a grassy area outside. It was just standing right on the very edge of a kind of drainage area before the cage mesh and swinging its head back and forth, over and over again. I was really disturbed by it. I stood there for ages looking at the rhino and it never stopped doing it. I thought it must be distressed.

Also the orangutans. They had a nice grassy mound with a low ditch all around it and climbing things which they used but there were a whole bunch of people mocking them, throwing things at them and they just sit there looking back.

What about all the dads who whack the cages to get a tiger to growl for their kids? That is the kind of thing I don't like to see. It's not the fault of the zoo if the public act like idiots, but how do you prevent it?

cookielove · 11/08/2011 09:59

I like Zoo's my local is Whipsnade, which on the whole is very good, and continues to improve over the years.

I think the real animal tragedy lies in the circus animals and back garden zoos all over the world that really don't care for the animals and just want to make money.

I wonder what your views are on monkey world? Essentially it is a zoo with just chimpanzees and orangutans, they are saving apes around the world, and giving them a safe home to live out there rest of their days!

newnameforamoment · 11/08/2011 10:09

I'm a regular poster but have namechanged as this will out me big time in RL.

I worked in the zoo world for a decade and many of my friends still do.

Most of us would agree that there are good zoos and bad zoos, same with everything. The answer is not to boycott all zoos, but to put pressure on those we are not happy with to get up to a decent standard.
There are animals I am uncomfortable with in captivity - some have no need to be there and we need to question why they are there. Others have little to no future in the wild and the captive population is a way of trying to ensure the species doesn't become extinct. Better extinct than in cages? That's a whole different debate but for my part I think not - once an animal is gone it's gone for good. If we hold a population in zoos there is the chance of one day getting them back where they belong.

Close zoos and give the money to conservation? What money? Without the zoo, it wouldn't be generated. Although some organisations (eg WWF) manage without zoos, they also get money from people who are interested in conservation. Zoos attract funds from people who just want to see animals and who wouldn't donate at all if they didn't get a fun day out from it. So conservation would lose out. And that's why you have things like meerkats. On the whole, animals like this do well in captivity, a huge amount of time is put into ensuring that they are kept busy and active, and they please the paying punters. So not every species is kept because it has a conservation purpose.

To give some concrete examples, Jersey Zoo (Durrell Wildlife) is involved in 45 conservation projects in 14 countries, including Madagascar, St Lucia, Mauritius and India. With many of these, the staff are Durrell staff just as much as those in Jersey, but they happen to be, eg in Madagascar, Malagasy people working in their own country rather than Jersey. They are involved in projects ranging from helping to build schools (on the basis that most villages are poorly equipped and when people are living a meagre existance, conservation is a luxury, therefore help the people and then they in turn will be more willing to help you help the animals), community education programmes, rebuilding habitat and captive breeding of animals in their own country ready for release.
All this is supported by having Madagascan animals in Jersey, so you can say to people - 'Look, this is the animal we are trying to save, this is what is happening in the wild, but we need the money'. People stump up far more readily if they can see it for themselves. Not everyone, tis true, but most.

The other thing that happens is that work with animals in captivity can inform work in the wild. Monserrat orioles for example, really rare birds, were brought into captivity for the first time a few years ago. The captive birds were then used to try out harnesses for fitting radio transmitters, before the designs were taken out to the wild. Information on how the animals breed can be handed back to field workers to ensure nesting sites are better monitored and protected. Staff with skills at handling animals in captivity can be sent to the wild to help field staff (who may know how to track an animal but no idea how to handle it quickly and effectively with minimal stress) - this happened in Madagascar with the Giant Jumping rat when genetic studies were needed in order to figure out what was happening with the very small wild population. Keeping staff went out, because they know how best to catch and hold the animals, massively reducing stress for them.
I also know bird staff who've gone out to field projects to help hand rear chicks - eggs were taken from the wild because of massive predation by cats (not a nautral predator), the chicks hand reared, and then released, often in new locations to try and establish new populations where they have previously existed but now become extinct. You need someone who regularly handles very fragile baby birds, who has managed a range of them (it's not a one size fits all situation so knowing how a range of baby birds can be hand reared is important - zoo keepers have this as it is the nature of their job, field staff rarely do).

The reality in the wild for some animals is that even protected reserves aren't safe. I'm thinking of orangutans, for example, where in Borneo, protected forests are thought to have decreased by around 56% between 1985 and 2001. Illegal logging and palm oil mostly to blame. Now, it's thought that Bornean orangs may only have 1% of their original untouched habitat left by 2020. So reserves may not be the answer, or not yet. While there is corruption and their safety in the wild cannot be guaranteed, zoos remain a viable way of ensuring the future of orangutans. It's not ideal, no, far from it, but the wild situation is not ideal and something has to be done or we accept the loss of orangutans. I would rather keep some alive in zoos as a safety net, even if as yet we have no idea how we'd go about putting them back than just accept that they have no future and let them die out.

Long message, apologies, but I am trying to make the point that zoos do damn good conservation work. Don't boycptt all zoos because you are unhappy with one or two, try and put pressure on those you don't like to improve.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 11/08/2011 10:16

the only time I was concerned about the welfare of an animal was when I saw the lone jaguar (I think it was a jaguar, twas a few years ago) at Chester Zoo, it traced and retraced a path around it's enclosure, it turned in a circle at the same points along it's route. The repetitive behaviour really disturbed me

Guildenstern · 11/08/2011 10:21

I sympathize with the OP because I used to feel like this about zoos. I think because I'd visited Bristol Zoo twenty years ago and been traumatised by the poor mad polar bear.

However, the zoos I've visited recently (including Bristol) have really sorted their act out. They are completely different places.

So: don't go to bad zoos. But don't assume they're all bad. The good zoos/safari parks are worth supporting.

ZonkedOut · 11/08/2011 10:23

Someone earlier mentioned tigers pacing around their enclosure. I'd just like to say that this is often misunderstood but is a good sign that the tiger is actually happy. They pace their territory in the wild, and if their enclosures were too small for them to be happy, they wouldn't do this.

AuntieMonica · 11/08/2011 10:24

i'm sure some animals are very territorial and will track the perimeter of their compounds when they feel threatened, so on 1st sight it may look like boredom, but they are in fact, acting instinctively.

AuntieMonica · 11/08/2011 10:25

sort of x-post there Smile

yes, why would an animal try to protect an area they were unhappy with?

Ephiny · 11/08/2011 10:26

I think many zoos are a lot better than they were, there is much more emphasis on welfare and conservation. I still don't like it though, the concept of animals put in cages for people to stand around and gawp at. I'm not against animals being looked after in captivity where necessary, but surely zoos are not the only way to do such conservation work?

I haven't been to a zoo in person since I was about 10 and we went as a family to Chester Zoo. Oddly enough it wasn't the exotic animals that I remember most vividly, it was a fairly ordinary cow with a calf, in a smallish pen on a baking hot day with no shade or access to water, surrounded by noisy crowds and 'mooing' constantly and frantically, seemingly very stressed and in distress (not at all the demeanour or behaviour you normally see from a cow standing in a field). I think we left after seeing that. I remember that poor mother cow 20 years on :(.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 11/08/2011 10:29

oh thank you for explaining, very relieved

ChitChattingaway · 11/08/2011 10:31

Big cats will often pace more on the side where there is another big cat or other competitor over the fence, and that is also marking and protecting their territory from the other cat/animal.

baabaapinksheep · 11/08/2011 10:46

OP - is it just large animals in zoos you don't like or is it all animals in enclosures, such as rabbits, hamsters, guinea pigs, animals at a farm?