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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...in really hating the term 'scum'?

113 replies

woollyideas · 10/08/2011 08:12

It seems like such an awful and judgmental word and, to me, says more about the person using it than it does about the people it's directed at.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 09:11

heaven forbid we call those poor misunderstood protesters any nasty names eh... Hmm

Sidge · 10/08/2011 09:12

Some people referred to as 'scum' are not, your Big Issue seller as a case in point.

But the people I have seen on the media the last few days looting, destroying, burning, mugging, assaulting and spreading fear, damage and terror - yeah, they're scum. They're the human equivalent of the bottom of a septic tank.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 10/08/2011 09:13

I think it's a very descriptive word. When I see somebody doing brave and wonderful things, for example, some of the child carers who look after ill parents; other unsung heroes who do things because they're the right things to do - sometimes at great personal cost - I think of those people as the 'cream', something to be very proud of, and I am.

The cowardly looters, thieves and thugs, mindlessly destroying everything in their path and greatly enjoying themselves are disgusting. Their behaviour is the lowest of the low. I think of them as the dregs of a society they have no interest in and I have no problem with them being referred to as 'scum'.

I know that some posters here have said how frightened their children are, nobody knows when it will end, but at least those children have their parents close at hand to comfort them. What about lone elderly people with no-one nearby to call? They must be out of their minds with worry and stress and I dread to think of the human toll at the end of this. :(

Every rioter and looter should be identified publicly and made to feel ashamed. I can't believe that people would ever sink so low.

sausagesandmarmelade · 10/08/2011 09:14

I think it's a pretty apt description of the rioters...who have absolutely no concern for the welfare of those affected by their behaviour.

I really feel for those who've built up their businesses...to have them destroyed in one fell swoop....and for those who've lost their homes...and who are now afraid to walk their streets.

Sickening!

Flowerface · 10/08/2011 09:14

Wow, this is worrying. The last few days are really bringing about a victory for the right, aren't they? I dread to think what the long term consequences are going to be...

Original poster
woollyideas · 10/08/2011 09:15

FFS. This thread was not meant to be about the rioters, although lots of you seem to be determined to make it so. I know it's bad form to do a thread about a thread, but my OP was actually inspired by this (and others like it.)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1276838-In-thinking-the-recent-events-are-show-that-some-parents-should-have-their-children-removed-at-birth-simply-for-being-scum

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Original poster
woollyideas · 10/08/2011 09:16
OP posts:
HoneyPablo · 10/08/2011 09:19

YANBU, 'scum' to me means that people have been judged and deemed to be beyond help.
It's never that easy, is it? Nobody is ever beyond help. Sometimes, people just can't help themselves. Everyone deserves a chance, some people just never get it.

Sidge · 10/08/2011 09:21

Given that the riots have been a headline feature for the last few days and the behaviour of the rioters has been repeatedly referred to as scummy on here and in the news, it's hardly surprising that most of us thought that's what you were referring to is it?

DesperatelySeekingSedatives · 10/08/2011 09:23

Eh? but the thread you linked is basically about the rioters isn't it? I didn't comment on that thread, however I disagree with what the OP was saying. It isn't that simple.

Infact opinions like that totally flawed really. "Take the kids away from these parents!" uh huh. And do what with them? Put them through the care system? "Will the children of scum" fair any better being brought up in care? Doubtful. Can you tell how someone will treat their children before they've even had a chance at raising them? Not usually.

People that assume all benefit claimers, the homeless, those from dodgy estates etc are scum are obviously ignorant. However, in relation to the criminals destroying cities across the country, the lot of them are vile scum.

sausagesandmarmelade · 10/08/2011 09:24

Woolly - no need to get shirty!

The OP was about the term scum....which relates very well to whats going on.

Original poster
woollyideas · 10/08/2011 09:24

No, Sidge. If there is a bandwagon, people will jump on it.

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LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 10/08/2011 09:26

woollyideas... Be more clear in your OP then. The 'big issue' seller example in your later post is a ridiculous example, who would really call them 'scum' other than a mindless idiot who calls everybody that?

The current news item is the riots; if you need a suitable sector of society to illustrate the correct use of the word 'scum', you have it.

I

DitaVonCheese · 10/08/2011 09:27

YANBU. I am pottymouthed as they come but there's something about the term scum which is really unpleasant. It's so dehumanising. It does make me think badly of the person using it too, as a PP said.

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 09:27

The thread you linked is about the riots though? Confused

OracleInaCoracle · 10/08/2011 09:29

Some people ARE scum though. They are. There are times when the description is misused, and that's wrong. But some people are vile shitpockets, you can't get away from that. My cousin is a junkie who (along with her dealing then boyfriend, no husband) beat her son regularly and put cigarettes out on him. They picked him up by his leg and hit him against the wall. She took drugs while pg andthe baby was born brain damaged, all her dcs have been removed and she is pg again.

She is scum. There is no other word. I can talk about how damaged and insecure she must be, how ill and vulnerable... But that doesn't change the fact that she makes my skin crawl and I view her as a sub-human boil on humankinds arse.

FreudianSlipper · 10/08/2011 09:30

what i have seen on the news many are children many look to be around 15/16 even younger

how can anyone think it is ok to label a child scum no matter what they are doing why not just lock them away and throw away the key you have condemned them already if you have that attitude towards them

no one is saying what they did is right or that it is ok to behave in a selfish mindless aggressive way and that they should not face consequences but calling them scum (isn't that what you would call a murdering pedophile too) is fucking ridiculous

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 09:32

how can anyone think it is ok to label a child scum no matter what they are doing

Oh I think you can.

Original poster
woollyideas · 10/08/2011 09:34

No Squeaky - the thread is about taking children away from 'scum'.

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CamperFan · 10/08/2011 09:34

I agree that people should not make generalisations and I avoid doing so. However in some cases "scum" is justified, current events being such a case. Being involved with looting is scum. Selling the big issue, being poor, drinking fruitshoots does not make you scum. But as an actual term, it is a good one. Dita, I ask the same question - what would should we use in this case? And flowerface I have never voted and never will vote Tory in my life, let alone for any other right wing party!

MissBetsyTrotwood · 10/08/2011 09:35

I know I probably shouldn't be using that word to describe them but I feel so, so angry and upset at the mindless destruction they've brought to our community I can't think of any other word to use that fits how I feel. Small family businesses that have taken years to build up are devastated, in an area where many vulnerable and poor people live. People who bully and use violence to get their way over the weakest of society? What else can I call them that expresses my feelings?

I'm a fully paid up Birkenstock wearing, Guardian reading Hackney dweller and I can't get past using that word right now. The group of kids wearing brand new trainers, tags still on I saw on the way back from town yesterday all laughing and hanging around as though nothing had happened made me so angry.

Strangely though, in adversity, those of us left picking up the pieces have a sense of camaraderie. Everyone has a view and everyone's listening to each other.

emptyshell · 10/08/2011 09:37

This whole "oh we mustn't judge and condemn anyone's behaviour" is why we ended up in this mess in the first place. If you're doing something illegal, or antisocial then you DESERVE to be judged by the society you're sticking two fingers up at.

Yes, the rioters last night - even down to the 11 year old kids running amok deserve to be called scum. If they don't want to be called it - then they shouldn't have acted the way they did.

However continue excusing everything, continue throwing money at the problems, continue dodging the brutal truth that there is a large section of society who simply do not give a shit, who've lost the plot completely about the right way to behave, for whom crime pays collossally, for whom respect is something you demand from everyone else but don't give to people like the police or decent members of society but just your "bruvs" and "homies", who ain't scared about the police or the law - because there's no way on this earth that they're going to find prison places for all those arrested and subsequently found guilty anyway (not to mention those who just saw it kicking off and decided to go along for a laugh)... just continue denying that they exist and let it build and bubble and simmer and eventually explode again like it has this week.

noddyholder · 10/08/2011 09:40

I think even the most liberal among us become less tolerant when we feel our lives and family values etc are under attack. I have said thought and hoped formthings which I would never normally condone in the last few days as I hate to see what this country has become. The lack of respect a whole section of society terrorising the good for a bloody pair of trainers and the pathetic excuses being used to justify their behaviour when the looters themselves are on record as saying they just want free stuff and are enjoying themselves. Scum seems pretty tame compared to what they really are tbh. My ds has gone off to Spain today on his first holiday with his mates. He is 17 and was really looking forward to it but this has tainted it for them all. Theyare scared of how they will be perceived abroad and that it will somehow affect their holiday. There are ten of them who went off inn the early hours not all rich or privileged but just lovely boys I felt really proud tbh of all ofnthem. Not all young people who are bored and living in cities see things as their right. Too much talk of individual rights and a whole lot of people who can,t hear the word no.

squeakytoy · 10/08/2011 09:40

Very well put Emptyshell.

Original poster
woollyideas · 10/08/2011 09:42

Oh, okay, everyone, I give up. As I said above, I did not intend this thread to be about rioters - there are already plenty - but I'll leave you all to it.

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