To believe £27k University debt will put children off?

[Mitmoo]

I am a graduate so value education but now we've seen that so many universities will be charging £9k a year that it will make todays pupils think that a degree just isn't worth the cost?

I know it doesn't have to be paid back until they are earning £21k or thereabouts but they are looking at 20 odd years of debt, more for some and no option to pay it off early if they get a windfall.

Add that to so many graduates not in graduate jobs and others out of work.

AIBU to think we are going to go back to the bad old days when university access won't be based on how smart you are but how much money your parents have?

I have a traditional degree and almost have an OU degree, the experiences have been very different. My traditional degree was inspirational, I lived my subect although it was hard as I had to work more than most of my contemporaries and in terms of my education I was starting at a much lower point. I spent hours in libraries lost in my studies. I met the leading lights in my subject and learned so much. Importantly for me I managed to escape a dysfunctional, abusive and deprived environment and realised for the first time in my life that I could have more than a miserable marriage, a house full of kids and a dead end job. Going to university was the making of me.

I am now studying with the OU, I work very hardbut it is bitty and isolated. I never feel like I am getting to the root of what I am studying, everything feels half done. I have a 2:1 from my first degree and I suspect I will get a 1st this time round. I suspect I will gain much more personally and professionally from my traditional 2:1.

I dont know if it will affect intakes..we seem to have the same number of applicants as last year. More certain of numbers in september obviously.

I spend much of my working life talking to students about their post A Level plans, many are put off going to university.

More students will live at home to save on living expenses, which defeats the object of a uni education imho. Can see it has its attractions for hard-up families though.
London Uni seems particularly expensive to fund - cost of tube fares, food, rent etc. Probably I am taking a provincial viewpoint but that's how it looks from where I am living (up north).

Its postgrad numbers Im more worried about tbh

I have noticed a lot of students choosing a uni they can attend from home.

Living at home to save on living costs is only an option for those who live somewhere where there's a university.

Thee you go, Mitmoo, patience rewarded!

And what about the bright kids who don't live near a good university.

I do think if money is going to be such a factor both for fees and also living costs, then students and employers alike are going to have to view studying from home in a more positive light. For some it could be the only option if they want a degree.

How about a student exchange scheme?
It could work like this:
Parents in Manchester do a swap with parents of a student living near Norwich (say) The whole scheme has enormous possibilities. I could set up a website ... a whole new career for me!

I think it is naive to assume that the levels of debt that our DCs willl have won't affect their chances of getting a mortgage. The increase in interest rate to RPI + 3% (8% at current RPI level!) will inevitably be taken into account by mortgage lenders.

Of coursed one way to avoid repayments will be to emigrate...as repayments are made as an attachment to earnings I don't see how this can happen if graduate move abroad. So that's a brain drain of our best and brightest in future years, which is really going to help the country get out of the mess it's in.

This Govt (and yes, I made the mistake of voting for them) has instigated a massive social experiment with our youth, and now seems to be making up policy on the hoof (I know - let's expand the universities whose course requirements are AAB.... let's fine others who are charging £9K....). It's a flaming mess, and I'm very angry about the whole debacle

I would much rather dd went to uni than had a mortgage.

Can I just add to this thread that I left school at 16, disillusioned with the whole thing, because I didn't see the point in racking up thousands of pounds for a degree I didn't feel that I "needed".

This despite being predicted very good results in A-Level science (all three). I wanted to go into a different field where the prospects were not so degree-reliant, and so a degree seemed outlandishly expensive, despite being something that I realise with hindsight would have given me one heck of a leg-up when it came to getting a job.

Now, part of that came down to ridiculously shoddy careers advice which completely failed to take into account what I wanted to do and not what would look good on the school's league tables, but part of it, a large part in fact, was fear of debt. At sixteen, £20k is a whole shitload of money. At sixteen, unless you have parents/teachers with a lot of patience to explain it to you, it is very easy to be put off the whole idea because you see only the short term view of how much it will cost. And while lots of people do have the support to help them see past that big number, a lot of students - particularly poorer ones whose parents didn't go to university - will be put off before they get over that hurdle.

And also, as people have been saying, the fact that a lot of people will never have to pay off the debt is not a good thing at all. University funding from the government is being slashed, so all those loans will count against the UK and its overall debt. If it doesn't get paid off, eventually the system will be unsustainable. Someone has to pay for people to go to university, because we all benefit as a society from people doing so.

Crossword That is a genius of an idea, young people still have responsible adults around to keep an eye on them too.

I am not sure it is a bad thing if less people go to Uni. I am a teacher and a sixth form tutor, and some of the kids who apply and go off to Uni are not suited to it. They don't want to be immersed in a subject, studying to a high level and investigating it has to offer. They want something to do for three years, that they hope will magically get them a better paid job. But then these same students often want their A level teachers doing all the work for them too!

I was the first year to pay any fees, £1025. I had to pay upfront and worked in my holidays to get the money. My mum then worked two jobs to help with accommodation and I had £2700 a year which I am still paying off (down to (£8k now!). I did Theology at a Russell Group Uni, not particularly practical in the real world. Apart from now wishing I had done something more political (it is where my interest lies more) I would do it all over again and be £50k in debt. No doubt. And I would live away from home again.

Sorry but I am an educational romantic and love education for its own sake. If I had the chance to go to Oxbridge I would do anything, any amount of debt. The opportunities it offers in terms of educational experience as well as employability cannot be measured in money.

But many will want to have both a degree and a mortgage. I don't think wanting both is unreasonable nor should one perfectly worthwhile ambition potentially be cancelling the other out. I think Marlin could be right though; it might

I agree that less people going to university isn't necessarily a bad thing. What is a bad thing is if bright but poorer students are put off. Generally it is this group that are discouraged simply because £40k+ debt seems massive if you come from a lower income family. And whilst there will be help available for very poor families, the working poor will get precious little.

Crossword - someone already has done that! A friend of mine lives in Sussex and she said it was in the news down there...

www.unihomeswap.co.uk/

We have thought about it for our children, but I don't live near any decent Universities alas!

Marlinspike

The fees will not cause a brain drain, as you still repay whether you are abroad or in the UK. It would be a bit stupid if you could just "run away" from it!

It's not in practice gong to be enforceable against people who emigrate, Marlinspike.

I just found out Ds2 school of choice and it really is the best 1 for what he plans on doing(history teacher) is going to cost $23,000 a year.A YEAR !!!!! There is no way on gods green earth I can pay that.Ive got another year to come up with plan B though

But how would it be collected from emigrants proudfoot if it is an attachment of earnnings (ie collected via PAYE) in this country?

As Andrewfogg says, I can't see it being enforcable.

YANBU.

Graduates will on average have higher earnings (not everyone, but on average). So a "graduate tax" or making graduates fund themselves is unfair.

I also believe education is worthwhile for its own sake in creating a more educated society.

(as opposed to one which just makes so-called useful stuff)