To want to be able to protect myself against a dog

[fizzwhirl]

This morning when I was out jogging, a dog repeatedly rushed at me, snarling. The first time, he rushed past me from behind, just growling as he went past. I didn't react too much to that, and just kept running. Then it turned around and came at me again twice from the front - a bit bolder. The second time, I yelped a bit and the third time I shouted for the owner - who was out of sight on the other side of a hedge - to call the dog away, which she did.

Further around the park, I came past them again. I called for the owner to stop the dog from coming at me, but she didn't do anything and it came at me again another 3 times. This wasn't playful: the head was level with the body wolf-style, and it was full-on snarling and slathering. After the first feint, the owner started calling the dog, but it ignored her and just turned round and rushed me again. By the 3rd time - each time it was snarling more, and breaking off later - I really thought it was going to take my throat out.

Now, I know I did some things wrong here. After it got funny with me earlier on, I should have stayed right away. But I wasn't really scared at that point, and I just wasn't thinking. After all this, I stayed at one side of the grounds just running back and forth along one side, and the owner stayed at the other side - and put the dog on a lead thank goodness. But I don't really think I should be chased out of a public area!

And from reading stuff on the internet when I got back, it seems that squealing, looking the dog in the eye (I was transfixed by this great slathering beast!) and lifting my hands up towards my face (my scardy-cat instinct!) would all have made it think I was aggressive/weak and made it worse.

I am scared of dogs. And it seems that something in my body language shows that, and makes them more likely to see me as a target, since I've had a dog come at me a couple of times before when cycling or running, and they always seem to go for me rather than other people. But I'm fed up of it! My dh suggested a personal alarm.

So, my (rather long-winded) question is, would one of these high-decibel personal alarm things make a dog back off? Or might it just make it more likely to attack? I know there are some dog-lovers on here - so I'm hoping some of you will have some insights into dog behaviour.

OP it's worth seeing if you have a specialist 'parks police' in your area - if so, I'd report the incident to them.

I was attacked by a doberman when out running a few years ago and it was a terrifying experience. The owner was hugely overweight and unable to get to his dog that was mauling me.

The park's police were really good and visited the park at the time I was attacked over the next few days until they saw the good/owner again and he was heavily fined.

it's all very well knowing what to do - but putting it into practice when you're being attacked by a dog that probably weighs more than you do is another matter

Do call the police, and/or see if you have a council dog warden. That is an out of control dog and an irresponsible owner.

LOL at people thinking they can kill dogs. As a dog owner I promise you you wouldn't leave the park

I am going to speculate...
Is a runner that keeps going past a dog kind of the same situation as a postman who keeps coming to the door but never enters the house. The intruder (you) approaches, the dog barks, the intruder leaves. The dog thinks it has won. In the dog's mind, you were going to invade its space, but it barked and you left. Now it thinks it is in charge so it feels all the more confident than the section time around. Maybe if you stopped running, spoke to the owner, and totally ignored the dog, it would then accept you were in charge as it would see you holding your ground.

Having said that, I agree with the taking its photo with your mobile, because you're not the dog whisperer, and the owner seems totally unconcerned with dealing with the situation. I don't think you did anything particularly wrong in the situation though. You sound like you were fairly calm.

GimmaTheNome - I'm intrigued, did the biscuit work for your mother?

I don't know if she ever had to use her biscuit in anger

BTW, don't trust a dog just because its tail is wagging. It may be a sign its enjoying its delinquent behaviour, not necessarily friendship.

My dog loves joggers. I always put her on a lead if I see anyone jogging as she seems to think they are running joyfully towards her to give her a cuddle and gets all excited.
She spends quite a lot of her time on a lead for completely opposite reasons! To stop her 'loving' joggers or to stop her killing other dogs. She is a collie and is rather odd.

I agree with others who have said to stop running and walk past if you meet this dog again.

fruitshoots are we timesharing the same dog? Lightly built collie, black and white, loves all things people-shaped, isn't so certain about all things dog-shaped?

Tanif - that's really interesting information about collies. I think you could be right that it was trying to herd me: I had a quick google about the herding instinct, and I read that the dog escalates it's behaviour until the sheep obeys, which would tally with the dog rushing me increasingly aggressively. I now feel very sorry for sheep! :)

Thank you all for the great advice, and also for being so supportive. I'm feeling a lot more confident now about what to do next time.

Can I second the recommendation of not kicking. If the dog is fear aggresive it can actually turn a lot of barking and snarling, into a full blown attack. I'd also be worried about the Corrector things as again, if the dog is fear aggresive it could cause it to attack.

To answer the title question, if you feel the dog is likely to attack. Stop, cross your arms across your chest, turn side ways on and watch the dog out of the corner of your eye.

Running will bring out the prey instinct in lots of dogs, so carrying on running can worsen the situation.

Having said all that, you should be able to run without the fear of attack. There is a section in the Dangerous Dogs Act that states that the dog does not have to attack you to be considered dangerous, making you afraid of being bitten is enough.

Please do not report them though as the dog will suffer for the owner's bad handling, but threatening them with the act should hopefully be enough to scare them into keeping it under control. If the dog contnues to annoy you though, contact the dog warden (the number should be on your local council's website)

I think kicking can be effective, my Dad would always give a good boot to dogs that would go for us when we were young children, protective instinct I think.

In Moscow they have a massive problem of pack of strays all around that attack people. Joggers often carry raw sausages etc to throw to them since they can easily be killed if the pack gets them.

OP I would like to commend you for your very reasoned and non-hysterical approach to a problem.
It's so reassuring to hear someone who understands that we all use open spaces and gently reminding us dog owners that we have to be aware that there are people also using the space for reasons other than dog-walking.
I'm sure that you owning up to your issues as well as considering the dog's is what has kept this discussion even tempered - most dog related threads seem to bring out the worst in both sides.

That sounds really distressing and scary OP. The owner was completely out of order not to get the dog under control immediately and keep it away from you. It's great that you realise that your instinctive reactions (squealing, flapping and staring at it) are likely to escalate the dog's reaction. It must be really hard if you're scared of dogs and don't know how to react, but the fact that you're looking for information about how to deal with dogs means that this is much less likely to happen again.

Really good, sensible advice from Dooin, Tanif and navyblue - please read and reread that, OP, and for heaven's sake do not listen to an ill-informed word of what cogito and glitter have told you.

If you kick an aggressive dog it is likely to bite you. As said in the sensible advice given, stop running, stand calmly with your arms folded, turned slightly away from the dog, and don't stare the dog in the eyes. Dogs turn their heads and bodies away, look to the side of the other dog, lick their lips and yawn as calming signals (there are lots of calming signals dogs use on each other; you can read about them here if you're interested www.diamondsintheruff.com/calmingsignals.html). Lip licking (just a quick lick of the lips) and yawning are used very often, and you could probably do that without feeling like a complete pillock! I use calming signals on my dog, and it's amazing how they work.

An alarm might be helpful, but since you'd have to carry it in your hand, I'd be more inclined to carry a camera phone so you can photograph the dog. I bet with their untrained and aggressive dog photographed, and the threat of the dog warden/police being informed, these selfish bloody idiot owners would take a bit more care.

I am glad that this thread didn't turn into a dog owners v dog haters.

My puppy was attacked last week and has been scarred on her nose, bad dog ownership effects everyone and makes parks unusable. I often pick up other dogs dirt to try to stop dogs getting a bad name.

We can look forward to your messages sent from a hospital bed if you kick the dog. Trust me, it just isn't wise.

You run a SERIOUS risk of being bitten. Honestly, I can't say this enough, YOU WILL BE AT GREAT RISK OF GETTING BADLY HURT.

If you're not so lucky, intellignceitself has explained the alternative:

"LOL at people thinking they can kill dogs. As a dog owner I promise you you wouldn't leave the park".

If anyone kicked one of my dogs they would not be able to walk out of the park. I promise you that, regardless of consequence to me. If this owner is the same in this respect you will have a huge problem on your hands.

It is NOT the dog's fault here, it's the owners.

Very dodgy internet signal where I am so will be uncharacteristically brief.

Stop running... do not make him think it's a game/sport.

Stand still, firm confident, BIG body language... look "big".

Hands must not flap about. Arms by sides or folded.

No eye contact - look over dogs shoulder/at tail - be vigilant but don't "stare him out" - that's threatening to dogs.

BIG DEEP no nonsense voice - "NO! DOWN! etc. REALLY bloody ROAR!

Report to local dog warden, dog is a bloody nuisance, there may have already been other complaints so they may have info on owner and will visit/implement Dog Control orders. Tell dick of an owner that you WILL report to police and that a dog doesn't have to bite to fall foul of the DDA.

If you want to kick, do so to the owner, not the dog. Happy to kick owner on your behalf.

Where's Mic Martin when you need him?

Sorry, but if a dog is actually attacking you then kicking/poking eyes/balls etc is the best way to make it release its grip.

Obviously not if it's not attacking you!

vintage I agree, but some people were advocating kicking the dog whilst it was aggressive and snarling, but hadn't lunged or bitten. Provoking it further is likely to result in it biting when otherwise it probably wouldn't have.

Best way of making him release his grip is to grab the tail and swing round or to poke stick/finger up his bum. Not nice, but effective though you have to be savvy and move fast.

Best way to get bitten is to kick/hit a non-biting dog.

I go into schools and teach children how to behave around dogs, using the Kennel Club's Safe and Sound Scheme
Basically it teaches children to 'be a tree' or 'act like a stone' when approached by an unfamiliar dog.
An umbrella can make a good weapon of defence. Most dogs don't like the way they go from pinpoint-small to open in a moment and it can keep something between you and an aggressive dog until someone can help.

I wish what you teach was a compulsory part of the NT, mymumdom, along with visits from rescue about responsible ownership/not breeding unwanted litters etc.

sorry- some good advice on here, but also some stupid advice.

If a dog is snarling at you DONT KICK IT - this is escalation and it might well attack /bite / savage you in self-defence. Snarling believe it or not is a sign it is scared / freaked out by you. Agree with great advice to carry a bscuit. If you needed to you can drop it (throw far bhind you) and it will distract the dog long enough to get away.

Agree the owner should sort out her recall and kee dg in sight. OP you need to just protect yourself.

OP I think you should report this incident to the police.My DB was recently bitten by a puppy while out running, he needed hospital treatment ,a small child could have been killed. he let the police talk him out of pressing charges.The idiot!

Ah yes - the finger up its bum trick! Forgot that one - not that I'll be doing it!

in my experience as a runner who runs on paths with millions of dog walkers is that they key thing is eye contact - or avoiding it.
i NEVER look at a dog in the face and they generally do not come up to me either being friendly or being agressive. i just keep the dogs general shape in my preipheral vision and keep my head up and make sure i do not catch it's eyes. the dogs completely and utterly ignore me at least 90% of the time.

In the last six months whilst out running I have had 3 dogs try to jump on me, 2 of them I saw coming and I just froze. Thankfully they were playing so when I froze they lost interest. But as something who is afraid of dogs they each scared the living daylights out of me. The third on come up behind me so I didnt see and actually jumped up at me, again dog was being 'playful' but I nearly sh#t my pants. Each time the owners were quite far away.
Also only a few months ago I had a dog run at me aggessively, I froze and it stopped but was snarling at me I really thought it was going to attack me. It took what felt like a life time to get the onwers attention.
These occassions nearly put me off running outdoor completely but now a just dont do any trail running, which I shouldnt have to stop. Also if I see a dog I stop running and walk past, but then the owners look at me like I am mad.
Its not really on and Im pretty fed up of it [orangehead stps down fron venting platform]