Libraries are the wrong target to save money

[seekinginspiration]

To think that this summer (2011) is the opportunity to save your local library? Go there, and take out books. Yes, before the (thought police) check this ? it does involve politics,; but NO : the money involved is minimalistic: £20,000 to staff a library for one year. Yes my 21 year old son is using a kindle, yes my 15 year old never goes to the library?.. but the library is important. Every library in BRITAIN reflects Britiain because it reflects localism. Every library and every community is different ?. Please respect that ?.. libraries of Britain CAN be the CATALYSTS of change - new business; old business = re-groath and new beginnings. PLEASE recognize that libraries are the WRONG target for saving money. FAR from being ?the easy target? libraries are the wrong target. ?? and I could go on ?. About why libraries are so important to British society but I WON?T ? I will ask you to tell this government WHY ?. SO Please tell them. ??..

Bubbles, like.

Assume the rich get more taxed and somehow Britain wins an internationla lottery and has lots of money, there are a lot more things much more vital that need fixing before libraries get saved...

So Bubble are you going to provide my children with the books they like reading? I cant afford to buy them but you seem to.

I'm a major library user - and I remain amazed that I can walk into a library and borrow 12 books at a time for nothing. That I can ask for a book that isn't held in one of our libraries and they'll buy it for me to borrow, and it still costs me nothing.

I'm equally amazed that for the fairly small borough in which I work (for the council) that we have 20 libraries. But I'm not amazed that some of these libraries are so badly underused and under-appreciated that some of them will have to close.

It's very sad. But working in the public sector, I know that libraries are not a necessity. They are a wonderful resource but they are going to feel the force of the cuts from the government (and therefore from the councils that fund them) eventually.

£20k to run a library? You wish! That's less than one officer's salary! Times that by goodness knows - I was told a couple of weeks ago that the cost of sending a LETTER to say a book or books are overdue amounts to £80 in total.

Add to that buying in new stock, then running costs in terms of electric, water, rent in some cases, then stock, staff etc on top - it's a fortune.

YABU because I think libraries have had their day in their current form. I like the places but I know full well that's my own nostalgia speaking.... because, despite being a voracious reader, I never step foot in one from one year to the next. The type of person that wants to read or do research will find books to read somehow. The rest aren't bothered about reading or books especially and, if they never visit a library, how does this improve literacy, educational access or localism? I think we're always looking at libraries the wrong way by wanting to preserve them in aspic when we should be asking ourselves what we want them to achieve, how best to go about it and how best to fund it.

I can see a place for the larger lending libraries such as those attached to universities to remain. All schools should have good libraries so that anyone school-age has access to books... and every child should be able to read fluently by age 11. But there has to be a better/more efficient/more popular way of getting reading materials and literacy into a community than the tired old system we have at the moment.

Twilight - sorry, I'm not seeing your point.

Fivegomadindorset - I think there are other ways to get books out to children rather than libraries.

That's the brilliant thing about books, they can be read over and over and provide everything they need to for countless children. Surestart centres (yes, I know they are under threat too) can have books that could be borrowed, nurseries could be encouraged to lend books to parents.

The nursery where I work has tonnes and tonnes of books, mainly from donations from parents whose children have outgrown them, and we are always lending them out to parents, or giving them away when we double up.

Beyond that, children can borrow books from school libraries, and that can continue right though to when they finish their education.

And for the rest of us - that's what charity shops are for. Books are expensive whan they are new, but they don't have to be bought new.

I'm an avid reader but havent used a library in years. Its so easy to get books elsewhere, not have to worry about finding time to go or return them etc.

Schools have an abudance of books for children and adults can choose where they get theirs from according to budget.

There simply isnt enough money and it does make sense to cut a service that fewer people than ever are using than to cut something from schools or health care. If libraries were truly wanted, people could own them privately and make a nominal charge but I doubt that will happen as they simply wouldnt self sustain.

I love libraries - always have done, always will do and they will always play a major role in my life. My son has been going to libraries regularly since birth and has the "library habit". He loves going to them.

If cuts have to be made then libraries will have to shoulder some of it.
They have cut some opening hours in my county - not that you'd know it because it is still a terrific service.
I order a book/CD/DVD/Sheetmusic and it arrives within a day or two - even if it is from out of the area. Sometimes amazingly esoteric and rare titles are found within hours. I can return an item to any library branch.
They host great events for kids, they help massively with literacy and ESL, they host literary readings and arrange book clubs.
There are not many things I'd chain myself to railings for but the library is one of them.

The idea that librabries are now obsolete because SOME people can afford to buy books and that schools provide for children is the most arrogant thing I have read on here in ages.
Libraries are wanted HMOO - if you actually used one you'd see how busy, popular and valuable they are.

Sorry, I don't feel like that about libraries. I just don't seem to have a slot in the week to go to them with the children, after-school they are either picked up by someone else ori in after-school club, and Sats are full of other activities. The best thing to happen recently for us was that the school my two attend has started opening its own library up for an hour after school, staffed by volunteers (staff and parents) which is brilliant, as you can get a book (or my children can by themselves, even better) before going home in about 5 seconds flat. And, the school library has all the books that school-age children love, whereas the local library has, well, an idiosyncratic selection.

I can see the value of mobile libraries, mini-lending libraries on tube stations, and large libraries in cities. But small local libraries, it doesn't make sense to spend nearly an afternoon a week just going to get a book, and if you are a working person, it's impossible. They aren't social centres for older people (which also offer their own book services). I think the days of having one large expensive to maintain and heat library where everyone has time to go and pick up a book is probably over.

"The idea that librabries are now obsolete because SOME people can afford to buy books and that schools provide for children is the most arrogant thing I have read on here in ages."

You may think it's arrogant but it's true. You can pick up great stacks of paperbacks at a car boot for 10p. As a kid growing up in a working class neighbourhood where the local library was a good half hour away on a bike, I used to haunt local jumble sales and feed my habit that way.

I use my library regulary and other than when it is rhyme time there are never many people in. This is a library that services a fairly large town. There only seem to be a handful of those who go to rhyme time who stay and get books out anyway.

I love libraries but the need for them is decreasing.

I am a professional school librarian, so have a good idea about what goes on in school libraries. The situation is that 100s, if not 1000s, of schools in this country have no library at all! There is no statutory duty on schools to have a library. In many other schools, where they do have a library, that library is underfunded, poorly staffed and appallingly stocked. This goes for primary and secondary schools.

So to say that children can use their school libraries and that public libraries can be closed down is ridiculous. A collection of donated books housed in a corner of a classroom is not a library. The stock should be carefully chosen to reflect, support and extend the curriculum and children should be encouraged by well-trained staff (teachers and professional librarians - particularly in secondary schools) to develop their reading and use the resources for research. International research has shown over and over that good school libraries have a huge impact on children's achievement throughout their school years.

Where good school libraries don't exist, perhaps parents should be at the forefront of lobbying headteachers to invest in them. Buying books from charity shops or swapping between friends is fine, but is no substitute for being able to browse through a properly chosen library collection. And if your local public library has poor stock, then that is the result of decades of underfunding by local authorities!

I know this is MN, but to imply that public libraries can be closed down and children can use their school libraries instead, kind of blanks out the huge percentage of the population who are not children! To say that you don't use the library, therefore, it can be closed is rather lacking in public spirit too. I don't have school-aged children, but I don't object to my taxes paying for schools.

Some people will say that libraries are no longer needed because everything is available on the internet or as an ebook. Firstly, not every published and peer-reviewed piece is available online for free, it simply is not! When it comes to children's homework, are you happy for your kids to simply cut-and-paste the first thing they find after a quick Google? Or would you rather they find something in a book written for their age-group that has accurate information? Many public libraries are now venturing into ebooks and more will be doing so in the near future. But remember that ebooks are not cheap and that ebook readers have to be bought too, unless you are happy to use your mobile to read them on. Also, not every printed book is yet available as an ebook - despite what some seem to think!

If you think that the age of the public library is over, then maybe you are not aware of all of the people who do use them and all of the things that they offer. I do believe that there has been some serious mismanagement of our public libraries in recent years, but I think that is down to local authorities, rather than the diminishing number of professional librarians.

Why not have a look at this site to see what the fuss is about?

Voices for the Library

Libraries are immensely important to a local community, for the books, for the computers and for the local meeting spaces they provide. Long may they continue.

I just wish that they would improve staff training and customer service. In most places it's dire

I too use the library.
I don't want to read on line, it isn't the same.

Don't get me started about how to save money.
Try stopping sending planes into other people's countries for a start. That would save millions.

Stop allowing people who are not resident in the uk to use our free health care system. Make the nhs provide basic, essential health care rather than be a free for all for any minor aliment.
Cut back on the quality of care given to criminals in prison. Do I care if they only drink water and have shit food-hell no.

The library is there to offer a service for the people who cannot afford to buy books. It should be saved, but more people should use the services to be fair.

"There is no statutory duty on schools to have a library"

Maybe that's what we should be campaigning for? Not to save the little prefab building that's never open when you need it. Literacy and a love of books starts in childhood and if children have parents that either can't or won't take them to the library, then a mandatory school library provision seems to be a bit of a no-brainer.

To be fair finding things on the Internet doesn't have to be a case of copying and pasting and there are a lot of age appropriate resources out there. It's the same as with books - even more so - and up to parents to guide and make sure it is done properly.

"The library is there to offer a service for the people who cannot afford to buy books"

That's the problem. The people who are most likely to use libraries are, ironically, the people who can afford to buy books.

I agree cogito. Both my schools had fantastic
Libraries which helped my love of reading. Thankfully the schools Ds will be going to have libraries aswell.

I heard recently about a scheme set up by Dolly Parton. Her Imagination Library mails books to pre-school children for free. Now that kind of initiative I can see the merit in. No effort required on the part of either parent or child and paid for by a private benefactor. That's the kind of creative thinking we need if we're to improve literacy... not the current rather vague 'if we build it they will come'.

Sirzy I agree that it doesn't have to be copying and pasting, but in my experience (lots!) that is what the majority of children do and sadly a lot of teachers accept as homework. I wish parents would help those of us who are trying to teach better research skills :)

Cogito I agree - school librarians have been campaigning on this for years, but there aren't enough of us to get heard, although we have lobbied parliament and done lots of other things. It would be great if parents would also make a fuss about this when their children's schools close down their libraries and sack their librarians!

When i've stopped running round like a headless chicken flapping about the butchering of changes to care services I promise I will start to give a shit about libraries.

I can't, actually, afford to buy as many books as I read. I couldn't for instance go and buy most of the Man Booker shortlist.

If taxing the rich had actually been 'done to death' we wouldn't be having this thread.

Not every LA is closing libraries - true - one LA was on the news yesterday as opening a new one - but all this was decided in their February Council Meetings where the budgets were set for this municipal year (2011/12) so it's bit late to be lobbying them now.

I go to the library quite often but it has to be said there are very few there ever and they appear to be massively overstaffed. When I was there on Monday, I was the only customer in and yet there were 5 members of staff. I think ways in which they can be kept open but I am aware of the financial problems that the Government has and they can't be described as being essential.

Yikert, working in a library is not all front of house, there is a huge amount of behind the scenes work that goes on.

I truly think that a society which does not value its libraries is totally fucked.

Amazing how many people think that just because they don't use something that it has no value to the broader society.
I don't use local authority playing fields, swimming pools, gyms etc but I don't want to see them shut down on a whim.

There is a world of difference between the library service being poorly run/finances mismanaged and libraries as an entity being of no value.
My local library is the most used library in the country.
Clearly they have got their act together in what they offer and there are queues at the door every morning waiting for it to open.

Cogito - I grew up on a council estate. The library was everything to me. There is only so much you can get from jumbles. Not least the support of great librarians.