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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that squatting in abandoned buildings is a good idea?

98 replies

BoojaBooja · 21/07/2011 23:21

I used to live in a London borough where there seemed to be a lot of empty buildings. I'd lived there for years and would see buildings left to go to ruin through neglect. Two buildings became occupied by squatters (one was an old house and one was an ex-Post Office). They became lived in. The house suddenly had a garden at the front and was well kept.

On the bus one day I saw a group of people outside of the house with loads of things on the pavement, including a TV and other bits of furniture. On the way back, the people were gone and the windows were all boarded up. Someone had evicted them. Talking to a friend who worked at the council, it turned out that the house was owned by the council and they were squatters. Two years later (I then moved so don't know if this is still the case) the building was still empty, boarded up and covered in graffiti.

As far as I know, the squatters in the Post Office are still there. They'd certainly improved the look of the place, and were apparently taking care of it.

So, AIBU is thinking that a safe, empty building should be occupied if nobody else is living in there. When there are so many people living on the streets, isn't this a good thing?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 22/07/2011 20:00

leares
YUP, great. Free bed and board at the cost of over £800 a week to the tax payer per person AND they get to learn about crime.
Perfect

leares · 22/07/2011 20:01

"There are empty places. They should be homes for the homeless"

They should whatever they're owners want them to be not just taken over

knittedbreast · 22/07/2011 20:03

no i agree if you are on land you are not supposed to be on you should not be able to sue for damages, just like if you break into someones house to steal and fall through the floor and hurt yourself yo shouldnt be able to sue.

other people pay fair rents-so? if a hose is unused (not a fmaily home while they have gone on holiday) and empty then those without homes shold be able to use them.
Id rather they have a roof over their head in an unused home than on the streets.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/07/2011 20:03

I sense a demographic here

When I left school in the early 1980's there was little hope for young people
resulting in the Convoy and lots of friends in squats

We've had 20 years of borrowing fuelled fake growth

and those who grew up during that do not realise how harsh it can get - even for those willing to work with degrees etc

chickens are coming home to roost

LemonDifficult · 22/07/2011 20:05

TalkinPeace2, my point was that just because something could be put to a worthier cause, doesn't mean it should.

Riven, I'm not saying we should leave people on the streets! I said/implied we should organise increased help for them. But that help should be organised and legislated, not 'law into own hands'.

Ormirian · 22/07/2011 20:11

"just because something could be put to a worthier cause, doesn't mean it should. "

Err... yes it should. Why should someone sit on a derelict or empty property just in case it goes up in value, or for whatever spurious reason, when there are homeless people? It's immoral. How could anyone not realise that is immoral?

LemonDifficult · 22/07/2011 20:16

Ormirian, the PC/ipad/whatever has a value and there's people starving who could use the food bought with money raised from the sale of the PC/ipad/whatever, so - will you be handing it over? Or do you think it's better to live in a world where people can be sure that the law protects them and their property?

LemonDifficult · 22/07/2011 20:17

'the PC/ipad/whatever' - I meant the one you're using to MN

leares · 22/07/2011 20:17

"Why should someone sit on a derelict or empty property just in case it goes up in value, or for whatever spurious reason"

Are we in Stalinist Russia have private property rights been abolished

Ormirian · 22/07/2011 20:25

But the alternative is that people are homeless whilst potential homes sit empty. And that is OK is it? As I said earlier I don't advocate squatting as an answer to a problem. But it is a good way of highlighting an issue. An issue which with your talk of Stalinist Russia and the protection of private property seems to be a non-issue for you.

Why not raise council tax to punitive levels for empty properties? Property owners could then make a decision based on purely financial arguments. Just so the nasty messy business of morality didn;t get in the way.

LemonDifficult · 22/07/2011 20:29

Ormirian - lots of people would say it's immoral to steal, or to break and enter property that isn't yours.

This is a discussion of morality but just because it doesn't conclude the way you want it to doesn't make people who think property should be respected and protected in law amoral.

There is obviously an issue: empty buildings and people who need roofs over their heads. You and I disagree because I don't think squatting is the answer to that problem, not because I don't think there's a problem.

Ormirian · 22/07/2011 20:32

Fair enough!

I don't think squatting is the answer. But there is a problem to be addressed and it isn't being.

Cocoflower · 22/07/2011 20:37

The problem is people aren't thinking what if it we me this happened to in their residental homes and are thinking of the 'greedy fat cats' or commercial buildings.

It shocks me.

What if you were hospitalised for a long period of time?
What if you became disabled and had to go and live with another realitve to care for you and someone squatted your home while you sold it it- your one means to money?
What if you had to go to the other side of the Uk or even abroad to look after a sick and dying relative?

You wouldn't mind the stress knowing sqautters could be in your home whiilst you are forced away from your home?

TalkinPeace2 · 22/07/2011 21:29

Coco
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/squatters-take-over-1636m-mayfair-house-1001072.html
business property, empty since 2005, office space for over 200 people
www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/5835557/Squatters-occupy-3m-home-on-millionaires-row.html
Bishop Avenue, overseas couple, never lived in it since buying 8 years ago
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8392580/Landlord-left-with-squatter-nightmare-because-of-legal-loophole.html
I like Noel Kingsbury's books - but it was a BTL

the number of REAL cases of people having their homes taken
asa aginst the number of properties being left empty for business speculation or by those too rich to give a stuff is minimal

Scaredycat3000 · 22/07/2011 21:38

I live in a block of flats that is owned mostly by a housing association, far from posh. The care taker is constantly patrolling for squatters and has problems every couple of months, the abuse he suffers for doing his job. My 80 year old neighbour was so scared she didn't sleep all night after being woken by some would be squatters trying to break into a flat 4 doors away at 2am, by trying to break windows, and the resulting Police presence for many hours. My son was 36 hours old when the squatters 9 doors away decided to use my cat as a chew toy for their fighting dog, they came back a 5 hours later to make sure she was dead, if not they would finish her off. That cost us £250 and had to send her to a safe house, my parents, for 3 months until they could get rid of them. It's lovely living in a block of flats where neighbouring flats have metal grills on them. These flats can't be done up and rented to those who need them when squatters move break in so regularly. I don't care where they come from, they are scum.

Cocoflower · 22/07/2011 21:41

Im sorry but I dont think just because someone is rich they derserve this. This is not a robin hood story full of nobility.

The media are far more likely to report sensational cases where million pound homes are involved, thats what the media does.

If there wasnt a true problem then it wouldnt be review on Squatting by the goverment as we speak.

Even if its only happened once to an innocent family, once is too much.

As it stands Talkinpeace a squatter could gain access to your home- are you ok with this?

Cocoflower · 22/07/2011 21:43

So thats three ancedontal stories now on this thread alone. Three two many.

Cocoflower · 22/07/2011 21:47

"I like Noel Kingsbury's books - but it was a BTL"

And.... Confused

onagar · 22/07/2011 22:25

By all means change tax rules etc to discourage leaving properties empty, but if you squat in someone else's property you are a criminal and deserve to be treated like one.

halfyorkshiremanhalfessexgirl · 23/07/2011 00:01

My partner, brother and friends have all live in squats at some point in their lives (in London) and I have friends that still do.

I can see that some people have had negative experiences of squatters and they are obviously a mixed bunch but in my own experience:
a) they take over properties that have lain empty for a long time
b) they do them up to make them liveable
c) they pay bills
d) they have a positive impact on the street
(in this case there is 3 ajoining houses, which were all abandoned and falling into disrepair)

No I do not know who owns these houses and why they are not bothered, but in 6 years they have not knocked on the door or sent a letter.

I think that is criminal for houses to be empty long term in this overcrowded city!

HHLimbo · 23/07/2011 14:36

The figures are about 1 million abandoned houses in the UK. 1.8 million people in need of a home.

These properties are used as investment pieces by offshore companies. They make an area look neglected and deny people a home. The companies only take the profit as property prices rise (due to shortage of housing!)

I think, if people are leaving a house vacant for years, the council should run it as council housing. The offshore company can still take their profits if they ever sell.

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