in thinking the CSA have really outdone themselves this time?

[RalphGnu]

I've posted before re our problems with the CSA but they've excelled themselves in terms of utter twattery this time.

DF has a maintenance agreement where he pays a set amount through his salary each month, including arrears which will be paid off in eighteen months time.

DF has been working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for the last month so that we will have the money to buy a car. This month, instead of taking out the agreed amount from his salary, the CSA have taken £997. Leaving us with £50 left over after rent/bills.

Cue a long and frustrating call to them resulting in. "Oops, don't know why that happened. No, you can't have it back. We'll knock it off the arrears you owe. Not our problem you can't afford to eat." Phone gets put down.

I guess this is more of a rant, if anything. First time in forever we would actually have money to spend on ourselves and it's gone. DF has worked all those hours and missed time with me and DS for nothing. DF and I have both cried. We know there's absolutely no point in taking it any further. Feel utterly defeated. Trying to keep it together for DS today but struggling.

the csa could be involved simply because the mother did not know where he now lives? or has been out of contact for so long, through no fault of his own.

missed a post, glad you know he is his child :) i hope you can make contact at some point :)

Please don't think I'm ignoring your posts but DS and I are going for a walk

Why is the amount being taken directly from his salary, did the CSA not give you the opportunity to set up a payment to them from your bank account, that way you would control what they get each month, taking payment direct from a salary is usually only done if this method has not worked,my ex used to cancel the payments reguarly and it was only after this that they agreed to take direct payment from his wages.

Well - i have been paying debts - and although i'm not happy about it when they take more then i was expecting - i don't cry that it's an outrage because i think it's fair enough - i do owe that money.

CSA work out the amount they take on your earnings, so if you earn more than normal one month - i think it seems fair that they would take more than normal for that month.

I don't believe a car is essential, and they seem to be managing without one for now.

I am concerned that they didn't know about the op's own son - they probably do need to adjust the payments you are making to take that into account.

Do you rent your house? Perhaps you can claim housing benefit for this month etc - do talk to your CAB.

I'm not trying to say that you should all starve, but i also think its unfair to expect that your son/you deserve that money more than the other child.

this is why Families need Fathers and other support charities involved with non resident parents recommend that you NEVEr EVER EVER EVER agree to a direct debit from the CSA. It gives THEM control of the amount they take. They can adjust it any time they like and there is generally bugger all you can do about it.

A standing order gives YOU control. So long as you continue to make regular and ontime payments they cannot force you to go onto a direct debit (though they will bitch and try to bully you into it).

Sorry you are facing this OP. You could try contacting you MP. They might be able to apply some pressure for you to get at least a partial refund.

"Well - i have been paying debts - and although i'm not happy about it when they take more then i was expecting - i don't cry that it's an outrage because i think it's fair enough - i do owe that money"

Really? If they took out circa £1k very now and again you would think fair enough? Not sure why you need credit if you can afford for any creditor to demand what they like any month they like.

If you are paying the CSA via direct debit they are obliged under the direct debit rules to notify you of every amount they are taking. If they take a different amount they are in breach of the rules so you can get the money refunded. Contact your bank asap and tell them that the wrong amount has been taken. The bank will then claim the money back from the CSA. You should also call the CSA and arrange for the correct amount to be paid.

Just a quick one before I head out MotherPanda the first contact we had withe CSA was when we learned they had applied for an attachment of earnings from DF's salary. For a few months they took 40% of his salary until DF came to an arrangement with them (apparently we were incredibly luckily they did this for us), so it's not a percentage of his earnings they take, but it is still a large amount.

They've known since the day our DS was born of his existence and we were under the impression his payments reflected this, but apparently not.

We've never had a car before but because we live a long way from my family we decided to get one so we could see more of them as DS grows up and to make life a little bit easier on DF getting to and from work.

I'll look into housing benefit, thanks for the suggestion.

I'm not saying i'm thrilled when it happens (or that i can afford it) - but i've only got myself to blame really for being in debt, no use blaming the company - because it is money owed to them.

The CSA are absolutely ridiculous. My mother is currently trying to sort out all sorts of absolute rubbish with them - primarily being that she has lived in the same address for the last 14 years, and has only NOW received a letter claiming CSA on behalf of my deadbeat father from the period 2000-2004. But the letter clearly states that they've tried contacting her previously about it! They also blame her for not keeping them updated, as they have no record of my 11-year-old brother. And as of 2002, I was in permanent residence with my mother, so she apparently should be paying CSA to my father for a child he refused to support !! They also think she should be paying around ten times the amount that she should, they have no record of her being on maternity leave at the time, and the last known employer they have on record for her is from 1995!

Completely ridiculous. I'd kick up the biggest stink ever - why not see about contacting a national newspaper such as The Daily Mail or The Sun? You'd be guaranteed a solution then, although it may not be ideal. Just tell them that unless you resolve this peacefully and amicably you'll go to your MP and then to the newspapers because he shouldn't be paying so much. It's basically theft - they've taken something that didn't belong to them and now they're refusing to give it back!

And as for the suggestions that they are just able to take whatever they like - screw that for a laugh. If you had a credit card loan, the payments would be regular and of the same amount. They can't just decide to take anything they want. And what is so wrong about saving up to get a car? I couldn't live without my car because although it may not be a 100% necessity, it's a damn sight easier than public transport. And public transport in my area is fantastic but I still need my car.

Sorry RalphGnu - I'm not trying to be a bitch. I know this must be awful for you - so i do hope it can be worked out so that you are paying a fair amount, and getting the help you need. Sorry, re reading your post i can see that you said it was a fixed amount.

I think i'm just a bit touchy about all this because my dad fled the country so that he could avoid the csa for 17 years.

I know from what you say that your partner isn't being a twat and avoiding all this - but its all an odd situation really!

There is a maximum % the agency can take under a DEO. Think it's 40% including arrears. If they've breached that then you should get on their backs to repay it pronto.

Chaeck that the assessment is right in the first place. Often they get it wrong.

Check also that they followed the correct procedures at the start. Did they write to him at his address? I recently got a client's "arrears" reduced by £40k as they were chasing him when he didn't owe a penny. There's a good chance he might get back all of what he paid as they never ever wrote to him where he was living. How was he supposed to know to pay the CSA? (and before the enlightened brigade - yes sassybeast I mean you - villify him, he'd been paying the mother an agreed amount for years and now the CSA want him to pay all over again as she wasn't declaring what he paid her so it wouldn't affect her benefits).

If you ahve a credit agreement adn someone takes more than they agreed panda, then they are in deep dodo legally. You can't just do that. blimey the amount of forms I ahve filled in for court orders in the apst (NOT CSA- just run of the mill looan shark... yes I know, I ran sharpish too, never take a job with a colleague's father is my advice). Anyway- if it is paid by DD then the Direct Debit guarantee should kick in; if it is paid by attachment of earnings I am not sure but a quick google seems to suggest they need to apply to vary the order.

The CSA will try it on though: we were in a similar situation years ago with our electtric, tehy took 3 payments in one month (not arrears just bog satndard payment, not owed or anything) and it left us without food; we were told it was our own fault for crap budgeting- suffice it so say we got the money back and a warning for the nasty helpline advisor who said that.

TBH, I think that it´s disgusting that you can even be made to pay back 11yrs worth of "arrears".

For what ever reason, she didn´t claim for 11yrs, so why does it need paying back?

Agree Diddl

OP, if you contact your bank, under the Direct Debit mandate they have to return the money to you if it was taken incorrectly. They then enter into discussions with the person who took the money and if it turns out that they had a right to take it, then it will be retaken from your account. You will get proper notice of this though.

I would advise you to seek legal help. Also cancel the direct debit. Sometimes companies can reset these up without your consent, so it might be worth changing banks.

I would then pay an amount directly to the child's mother and would also start legal proceedings to get access to this child. I think it is outrageous that she kept the truth from your DF and still thinks she has a right to his money. She has deprived her child and your DF of a proper relationship, but is quite happy to have her hand out. To my mind, you should only be entitled to financial suppor if you've informed the father that he is a father. That way he can plan his life and finances accordingly.

Time for your DF to stop rolling over and start playing hardball with this woman.If he doesn't, then his child will remain a stranger to him and that's not fair.

I agree with karmabeliever except on the direct payment to the mother. Please don't do this. She can tell the CSA that she has received nothing (i.e. lie) and they will believer her. He will then get stung for even more debt.

IIRC, it's not the absent parent who 'claims', it's the CSA.

This how the system fails both parties. Once you get them involved, they carry on as if you never had a reasonable relationship with the other party involved and treat you like a statistic. Your 'case' is purely numbers and formulae.

Bastards. I hate them.

I'm pretty sure they are at fault for taking this huge sum with no notice, but good luck in getting them to admit it.

I don't know anything about the CSA but on principle it seems a bit shitty to owe money to support your child when you have enough money to i) save for a car and ii) go away for the weekend.

All things being equal supporting all your children and paying what you owe should come before cars and holidays, surely?

Obviously being left without enough to eat is dreadful - but presumably the bank can resolve this under the DD mandate?

Um, I work for a company doing the wages, and we get an arrestment notice in from the CSA telling us what we have to deduct from the parents monthly salary. It is only ever a fixed sum (in the 3-4 cases I've dealt with). The only way extra can be taken IIRC is if there is already arrears on the agreed payments
I'd be interested to know how they managed to deduct extra?

Quite Fuzzled: could it be a employer keying error I wonder?

"I'm not saying i'm thrilled when it happens (or that i can afford it) - but i've only got myself to blame really for being in debt, no use blaming the company - because it is money owed to them."

That's not how financial services work in the UK. What are you using, loan sharks? I can't think of a time someone I owe money to (eg mortgage, pay monthly car insurance & home insurance, loan for furniture) has randomly taken more than expected. It is against the law for them to take more than agreed for a start.

OP this doesn't sound right but I've not had any dealings with the CSA so can't offer advice I'm afraid. I am amazed if they are really allowed to do that though.

QueenofDenial, 9 years of arrears to support a child you weren't aware that you had is a lot, for the CSA to start taking big chunks. I imagine that is the reason that a monthly payment towards the arrears was agreed in the first place.

This doesn't sound right to me at all. Unexpectedly taking a massive load of money could have the result of plunging this new family (including a child) into debt - that feels cockeyed to me.

FME of payments taken from wages for CSA payments, it is the HR dept at you oh's work that have made the mistake. My ex had an increase of payments because they had not been reassessed in 10 years, it took HR 5 months to get around to changing the payments ( his uncle owned the company) they just kept saying they had never received the letters. It is not always down to the CSA, my best advice, from 15 years of experience of the CSA is to not just take the info from 1 person, call back and ask to be put through to the team dealing with your case.