Potty training at nursery: no underwear until 'fully independent'

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

A friend tells me that at her child's nursery, they have to be in nappies until they are fully independent - going to the toilet unprompted, undressing and redressing on their own, and wiping themselves. Her child didn't train until 3.5 so it wasn't an issue for them since by then the motor skills were present.

But DD trained, substantively (by which I mean occasional accidents and she needs reminding sometimes), at just after 2. No way on earth she could wipe herself at 2 - anecdotally, most of my friends say they assist until at least 3, sometimes 4, yes? And she'd struggle with trickier clothes, as well, although I suppose one could just dress children in easy-access stuff for a while. My friend concurs - says that no child in the 2yo room wears underwear, and only half of the 3yo room do. So it's not until the 4s that they all wear underwear.

So the nursery says it's all about fostering independence, teaching children to take responsiblility for the entire process, etc. They just basically provide the child-sized toilet/sink, and leave them to it. This is what my friend approves of, that it's teaching responsibility and independence.

In contrast, I think it's actually cruel to make a child wear a nappy for longer than they have to. Of course they're necessary evils for most of us who haven't the time and inclination to hold out babies over potties or whatever the EC crowd do, but they're cumbersome, get in the way of playing freely, they're hot and sweaty and don't let the skin breathe, and they're just generally no fun at all to wear.

And it wouldn't actually make the carers' lives any easier, since it means they're changing nappies (involving far more wiping!) for longer than they'd have to otherwise. So it's clearly actually a philosophy thing, not a laziness thing. Is there a long term benefit I'm missing, here?

So. AIBU?

Ok, good, glad it's not just me.

Eric, I must defend my friend, though: her daughter suffers from massive anxiety, and got really bad constipation every time they took her out of nappies out of fear that she would do the wrong thing, so they backed off on the advice of their paediatrician. So, not lazy in that circumstance, and she did feel really conflicted about what approach to take. I do think, though, that if she hadn't had an unusually late trainer she wouldn't be as positive about the nursery because I don't think she realises just how long the gap between TT and being able to be fully independent is for most kids. Otherwise I agree with your entire post, though!

Yeah I knew I was being unreasonable when I wrote that! But as you say, she doesn't really know what PT entails if she left it to that late stage (for whatever reason)

Tortoise, I am really sad to read that your friend's daughter has anxiety issues around toilet training. It is attitudes like the nursery has that actually cause these issues in children. It may be that the anxietie were caused by something that happened at the nursery. Being sensitive to a child's needs is the most basic skill you need when caring for children and it really makes my blood boil when I hear of bad practice like this. If they can't even get the basics right, then it is pointless them doing anything else.

yanbu, as you say it does seem quite cruel to make children wear nappies who are considered toilet trained at home and normally dont wear them. i would not be happy with that nursery policy for my dc
i would consider my 3yr ds fully toilet trained but i do take him to the toilet and clean him and supervise him (not sure if he could do all by himself as tbh ive not given him a chance to try, maybe i should!) but i would be very pissed off if a nursery wanted to put him into a nappy, i dont think he would be happy about it either. surely it would either upset the children or make them revert and become lazy about toilet using?

This is one of the reasons that I never entertained the notion of sending any of my kids to a nursery.Lazy arsed nursery nurses who can't be bothered to do their fucking job properly.My friends daughter who is 14 months old was called 'spiteful' because she didn't want to share something she was playing with! WTF.Too many kids to watch let alone interact with and help build skills properly.

perfectmom If you had bothered to read the thread, you would have realised that this nursery is not representative of what actually happens in nurseries. I take offence at your Lazy arsed nursery nurses who can't be bothered to do their fucking job properly comment.
Now, do fuck off, dear.

perfect sounds like your friend has sent her DD to a bad nursery. They do exist, as do bad parents. Your nickname suggests you are perfect though so lucky you.

YANBU!

I've only recently managed to fully potty train DS, at 3.5, but the nursery have been exremely understanding in helping. His previous chilldminder, not so much. There have been times I've picked DS up from nursery, and he's been through 4 changes of clothes, and they've never once suggested "nappies" or pull ups. In fact, theyencouraged the way I was doing things, even though it was still the early stages of training. Parents and childcare providers need to provide a united front on potty training, imho. Other wise the poor child ends up confused.

Perfectmom you win the smug post and name of the year award methinks

Fucking Hell Perfect...not all nurseries are the same.Talk about tarring everything with the same brush.

LOL @ PERFECTmom. Name seems 'apt'.

Honey, no, in this case it was prior to her being sent to nursery at all. And I'm very loath to 'blame' my friend, either. It's just this child's personality - she's a bit older now (5) and it's been suggested that she see a child psych (or something similar, I can't remember) because her general anxiety levels and the way in which she deals with change/new expectations is outside the norm.

My DD's nursery has been fantastic with potty training, they and I worked together over a couple of weeks and it came together beautifully. She has an occasional accident now, and there's not a hint of censure about it - she'll come home and cheerfully tell me 'I weed in my knickers and Carer cleaned it up' and then move straight on. It's also easier for her at nursery, to some extent, because their toilet and sink are at toddler height.

That is certainly not representitive of when my DD went to nursery. She came out of nappies at 2 and the nursery were brilliant, trying her on the potty or the toilet throughout the day, and I always packed spare clothes in case of accidents, which I must say there were never many because nursery staff so good at looking out for the signs and whisking her straight off to the toilets.
I would look for alternative nursery if that is possible because, as previous posters have said , that sounds like an easy, lazy option for them.