to refuse to pay my rent? WARNING - LONG!

[NotPaying]

Gas safety certificate ran out in April, water damage to walls/laminate floors caused by various leaks last winter has still not been repaired, together with the carpet that was ripped up when they repaired it.

Back story is that we have been placed in 'temporary' accomodation by the council since our house was repossessed last April. It was a bloody nightmare to sort out and I was 6 months (unplanned) pregnant at the time (with 3 other DCs) as DH was made redundant and I could not find another job after I was made redundant in 2009.

Anyway as the council have no temporary properties of their own to accommodate families, we were given a property managed by a private agency but the tenancy was drawn up by the council (we pay the agency rent not the council). The rent is market rent (LHA maximum of £900 per month) as they expect most families to be claiming full housing benefit I presume. We don't as DH found another job almost as soon as we moved in! We had no choice in the property and we know it would not be worth that amount on the open market.

Now when we moved in, we were told that there was no door fitted between the kitchen and through lounge to aid in ventilation with the gas boiler. I was a bit about this until British Gas came to install a new meter and immediately stopped the gas as they said there was a leak so we had to move out leaving all our furniture there. We later found out the owners of the property and the agency were aware of this that was why there was no door . The upside was that a new boiler had to be fitted. The owners had to pay for this and insisted on using their own 'engineers' aka cowboys (relatives) rather than the agency people, who trashed the house by cutting copper piping (all new pipes) INSIDE rather than outside (while we had moved out) so it took me weeks to get rid of all the bloody red dust. They left the boiler and all the pipes (loads of them) exposed with no attempt to clean up. We asked for the gas safety certificate after it had been done and after chasing the agency for a month finally got one. Since then we have all manner of problems - boiler not working, leaks throughout the house, when one cracked pipe is fixed, another bursts somewhere else etc. We have had mould throughout the winter because it was taking the owner weeks to get someone in (same cowboys) to repair them whilst we had a new baby. The owners will not allow the agency to do the repairs as they want to do it on the cheap with people they know. The owners are not listed on our contract at all and the agency is listed as our 'landlord' not them. The owners have also been abusive to us including telling my DH that he should not be complaining as the 'council are paying the rent' not us [angry, angry, angry]. Of course DH put him right on that.

Last month the agency arranged for a new gas certificate to be done. The owners wanted to do it themselves and sent the same 'cowboys' to do the job. I asked for their 'Gas Care' cerfication badges and they said they were not certificated but their boss was (he was not with them) so I told them very nicely to get lost as I understand it is illegal for non certified engineers to do this work and I want to make sure it is properly checked. Then complained to the agency who said they would sort it. A month later we have heard nothing. I am thinking that the owner's know that the 'cowboys' they got to do the job are not certificated and that the boiler may not pass and that is why it has still not been done.

AIBU to refuse to pay any more rent until all this work is done. I have also complained to the council about this and they have done nada!

You cannot legally withhold rent in England because your property is not up to standard. If you do so you risk being evicted. It sounds like you need to find somewhere else to rent anywhere but meanwhile you probably don't want to end up homeless again (and you would be intentionally homeless if you withhold rent which as you know has implications for what the Council are obliged to do for you). If there isn't a specialist housing advice agency near you (like Shelter or Brighton Housing Trust) then try CAB for specific advice on what to do next.

Blimey, £900 would get you a flat where I am ..... Looks like I should go up north to get a detached house!

Sorry I haven't read all of the replies, so apologies if I've cross posted

If you are having trouble raising a deposit and have credit rating problems you can always approach your local credit union?

What Shelter says about rent and repairs

Ah, the above is wrt social housing - because this is an emergency let thought might be more appropriate...but please please please speak to Shelter as your situation seems more complex.

In Scotland there is the Private rented Housing Panel for situations like this. Don't know if there is an equivilent in the rest of the UK.

We managed to get an interest free loan from our local council towards our deposit. It worked out cheaper for them to do this than pay for us to go into emergency accommodation (and we have a nice little house with a really good landlord).

You need to start looking into what different departments your local council has and see if there is someone more helpful than those you've already been dealing with.

Please contact your MP. In an era where HB is going to be capped, MP's really need to be aware who the real badguys are: rogue landlords.

Also contact Shelter.

Tape this stuff and send Shelter, your MP and hte council clips.

I begged our social housing department to come and see how we have to live for five years. They refused, and also thought that the harassment from the NDN was perfectly okay, as she was 'just' a psycho hose beast as opposed to hate crime motivated, and my bedroom floor breakdown and subsequent chemical cosh was fine as well.

Cue one Tory MP canvassing in election week - I invited him in. He was horrified , and felt it the worst case he'd seen. It was him who unleashed the private housing inspector, who was also horrified . They got things DONE. From the moment he stepped into our home, to being rehoused, was six weeks . Had he not come in, I honestly do not think I would be here now.

Lachesis is quite right when she says about recording it. Once the powers that be have SEEN it, it's only then they realise that they have to act. If they won't come to the mountain...

When I was in your kind of position I was too weak, drained and, well, suicidal to fight hard. But now I am stronger, I will do all I can to help people who are exisiting in the same hell that we were.

As a landlord who indulges my tenants every whim and fancy and provides them with lovely, well-maintained homes, where pretty much everything is brand new (for £600 pca), I am shocked and staggered by your landlord. He should be bloody well locked up, along with the agency and the idiot at the council who inspected the property and deemed it suitable to rent. I don't know what would happen if you refused to pay rent - can ask my property manager for you as he handles the business side. I suspect your landlord would try to evict you/take you to court and then the onus would be on you to prove the house was uninhabitable, which could prove lengthy and costly with no guarantee of getting your costs paid. For how long is your contract? You're entitled to 45 minutes free legal advice from a solicitor still (I think).

Not read all your thread but I hope your council is better than mine in S.E as we have been in temporary housing for nearly 8 years and nothing on the horizon for a 3 bed H.A property.

I am in the same position as you but a single mum of 3, in a privately owned house, I work but do get housing benefit, my landlord not great but better.

I would seriously think about moving as you may be there longer than you think due to you know beeing deemed suitably housed.

As others have said Shelter are good and very much worth calling. If you call the helpline it will be hard to get through as they are so busy, but stick with it.

As for the rules regarding intentional homelessness, ask shelter about that too as the rules regarding this changed a while ago. No matter why you are homeless your council have a duty to help you, if you withheld rent you would eventually be evicted and your council would have a duty to help you (this would not have been the case a few years ago, and, with reductions in HB kicking in soon for families there could be quite a few people unable to pay their rent who will be in need of council help).

Obviously withholding rent should not be done without very careful consideration. Ask for shelter help so that you can gain some control over the situation.

Have you anyone in your family that could act as a guarantor for your rent? The guarantor would have the credit and income check carried out on them. The deposit could come as you give notice and say that you will pay the last bit of rent from your deposit.

Get writing.

Write formal letters of complaint to the Council, your agency and the owners of the house. At the top of each letter list all the other people you are complaining to and also state that your local MP will be getting a copy.

Make sure you emphasise the fact that young children are being forced to live in damp, mould, unsanitary conditions for several months.

Send it all to your MP with a covering letter explaining your situation and asking for their help. Visit their surgery to speak to them in person. Make sure that the council, agency and owners know that you are doing this.

Long term, start applying to housing associations yourself. Some of them will take direct applications.

Good luck.

Also, do you have floating support in your area? They're very helpful to have in your corner as well.

if you don't pay the rent for a couple of months, that easily adds up to deposits and fees, so why would you be stuck in that shithole for 2 years~+?
You don't sound very pro-active and thats probably why you're getting walked over.

I work within homelessness at a Local Authority and used to work as an advisor in housing at a law centre. Some of the advice here is good, some totally wrong!

Please contact Shelter on 0808 800 4444 for the correct advice.

You must not withhold rent, you would make yourselves intentionally homeless and cease to be eligible for housing (intentionally homeless households are entitled to advice but not housing). You should contact Environmental Health relating to private homes, in my area they're called Private Sector. They will send someone round and can serve notice on the LL to ensure work is completed. If they feel the home is unsate ask them to put that in writing as you would then be considered inappropriately housed and new accommodation would have to be found.

I'd also advise getting your MP or local councillor involved, it shouldn't make a difference, but in my experience my manager always wants me to resve an issue with a MP involved faster than one without!

I'm sorry you are going through this. In my area we have huge numbers of homeless households and a dearth of accommodation, we end up spending a fortune on crap accommodation which is too depressing for words. In our area homeless households are no longer highest priority and it can take over 10 years to be permanently housed.

Write to the agency and send it recorded delivery. In the letter say you will be getting British Gas round to make the gas safety check and that the cost of the check will be deducted from the next months rent. Say that if they are unhappy with this they must contact you by X date with their own Gas Safe certified heating engineer who must come round within 2 weeks because currently the landlord is breaking the law and as his agent they are fully aware of the situation.

Then do it.

If British Gas say the boiler does not pass the checks get a quote to get it to pass and arrange for them to come out to do it.

Then send another letter recorded delivery to the agency with the quote to make the property gas safe and that the cost of doing so will be deducted from the next months rent. Again, if they want to send their own Gas Safe certified engineers out then fine, but you will be checking any paper work with the relevant bodies of anyone who comes out.

Does your council not do the deposit bond scheme?

Pingu she cant do that, it explains on england.shelter.org.uk how to handle that side properly, she needs to warn them she is getting quotes first

Ring shelter and your local mp

Was just about to post similar to Firestone . If you withhold rent, it puts you legally oin the back foot and if evicted on that basis you would be classed as intentionally homeless and be low priority for re-housing. Even if it isn't a council-owned house they can get involved if basic standards are not being adhered to ie. the Gas Certificate, damp. If your contract is with the agency then they should sort it out, not just pass it on to the owner. Focus first on the complaints which affect your health and safety, rather than the cosmetics and nuisance of the botched piping etc.

you need to go to caband get a housing solicitor

Way back in the day when we still got our boiler checked, it was leaking gas and got shut down by the BG emergency peeps. The letting agency rang and told me that the LL was sending round a family friend to sort it and "It's OK, he's ex CORGI"

He arrived with a spanner, lighter and asked for a cup of soapy water. And I still can't believe that A) the letting agency was complicit in this and B) we weren't all killed in our beds.

You must ring the housing officer at the council. Most councils take a very dim view of private landlords not complying with regulations. By the sound of things you may need to be rehoused. Do not just stop the rent. Use the council to back up your claim that the house is unfit to live in first.

And get a carbon monoxide tester for the mo, i think they are fifteen quid in asda

Problem is morebeta the council put her there!