AIBU To hate my DH parents!

[jasminder1]

Hi, I'll try to keep a long story short. My DH is Sikh and we have been married for 4 years and have two beautiful kids. My DH parents have never really accepted me due to the fact that I'm not Indian. At the beginning of our relationship they still took calls from other families trying to arrange dates/meetings with my DH (then boyfriend with a view to potential marriage) whilst in was in their house!. They asked me to wear a wedding ring when we weren't married but lived together ( which I refused!) and told family members we were married when we weren't at the time.
I have tried to make them like me and have even attempted to learn Punjabi, things did get slightly better when DS came along but 3 years on and I feel I'm back to square one. They visit every other weekend and stay over (and take over!), his mother treats me like a kitchen maid and orders me around in my own house, they have walked out on me saying I have offended their religion when I refused to put up a picture in our house that they brought with them of their sacred guru ( my DH is not a practising Sikh) and now they have given up talking English in front of me and leave answer messages in Punjabi only. To say I hate them is an understatement, I really don't know what else I can do, I feel I'm constantly moaning and having arguments with my DH about them, he agrees with me most of the time but doesn't back me up or is too afraid to upset his family, I'm at the point where I just wish they just didn't exist, I don't want my relationship to fail because of them but I can't see how it will ever get better.

My ILs are lovely, helpful and good company. But there is no way I'd have them to stay every other weekend. There isn't anyone I'd have to stay that often.

So the first thing to change is that. Get you dh to tell them that it is no longer convenient for them to come so often and from now on it will be every 6 weeks, and you will alternate with visiting them, so they only come to you once every 3 months. Don't give a reason, just say it isn't convenient. If they go off in a huff, that's your first 6 weeks sorted.

If you can't get dh/the ILs to agree to this then you need to take your ds and go visit friends/your mum for the duration of the ILs' weekend visit.

Once you've changed the visiting pattern you can start on the behaviour. You and your dh should both learn rudimentary Dutch and speak to each other in it in front of his parents. And when you're visiting them you can enjoy yourself ordering your MIL around. Take a picture of Jesus (or Yoda if you prefer) and request that they put it up somewhere prominent. When they complain, look surprised and point out that you are copying their behaviour ...

Sorry, that last bit wasn't terribly serious (although Dutch is quite easy!). But I think you should show your dh your OP - particularly the bit about "I don't want my relationship to fail". He needs to know that his lack of a backbone is a serious issue, and that he has to put you first. The ILs aren't going to change if they can see that their son will let them get away without changing.

YANBU

They sound awful.

There is no fucking way a religious picture would go up in my house - how rude!

This put it up to keep the peace attitude wont work it is a symbol of their control and belief they can bully you and their son into their way of thinking.

If they speak another language in front of you, your DH should tell them in English it's very rude to that and then translate to you what they said so you can answer too.

I think you need some time away from them; they're not going anywhere and will be a part of your life. Can you make yourselves less available for a while so they are not staying over so much, perhaps replace the weekends with family days out or lunches. Does your dh have siblings that can have wider family gatherings so you are not the focus. And try and take advantage when they do stay; let them cook and fuss.
I do think they are rude speaking punjabi do you cannot understand, keep trying to pick a little up. Can you put the picture on the back of one you like so you just flip it for their visits?
I understand your dh doesn't want to cause upset but you need to be able to take them on together and hopefully laugh about them together too.
As for the whole religious icons in houses, so many people have little Buddas - it's a matter of personal taste.

I can't get over the fact that they come and stay every other weekend. If you spend the same amount of time with your parents, which is only fair, that means you never get a weekend alone with your family.

Even if you see them every 6 weeks, and the same for your family, and say have friends to stay as often, you still only get weekends on your own half the time. I'd go mad if I only got a day to relax at home with my family once a fortnight.

Your dh has got to see that that is bonkers, surely?

What a difficult situation. I think them staying over is too much, perhaps suggest a 2 hour maximum visit on alternative weekends, providing that they are polite and respectful to you.
I see no problem with you refusing to display a religeous picture if it is not appropriate to your life.
Maybe a letter to them explaining what you find unacceptable/offensive (currently, not offloading stuff from years ago), and some guidelines of what you expect from any guests in your home?
Your husband needs to man-up, but in the absence of that, you need to take steps yourself to improve matters. Things may get worse before they get better, or they may just get worse, but you cannot have this type of behaviour in your home, to be witnessed by your children.

gramercy I hear what you say about it only being a picture of God and no big deal but I just wonder what would be next if I were to give in on this. In their culture it is not uncommon for them to be living with their eldest son (my DH is their only child) and to be honest I think the only reason it hasn't come to this is because I have stood my ground on certain things and also that my DH knows I would leave, the compromise I guess is them turning up and staying every other weekend. I also know and agree that I need to be stronger and stand up for myself more and that my DH needs to take a firmer stand - the problem is he has so much respect for his parents (like I do for mine!) but being the only child just adds to the pressure of it all (he did however help put the chain on our front door as at one point they would just turn up at 8am on Saturday mornings and let themselves in whilst we were all still in bed) - I'm still trying to get the keys back!. I guess this is just going to be a slow slow process although I might take the advice of secretly learning Punjabi as I would love to catch them out one day. I also don't want my children learning the language without me, they have already started to teach them words.

I know how hard mixed culture relationships can be. my DH is hindu and his parents live in india, they come over every year during the warmest time in India to stay for 3 months with us.

we pretended to be married when we were first living together, which was no big deal to me but really helped his parents out at home, we then had a quick registry office wedding here when we were ready with just both sets of parents then had a big wedding in india. It made it so much easier for my inlaws to say we were married to their friends and family.

we also have religious pictures up, but only ones that I like, I am not Hindu, DH isn't practicing Hindu. I guess we see them as cultural rather than religious. I am so lucky though as FIL has very good taste and everything they have given is more like a work of art.

As for the cooking situation, I am honestly ready to jump off a motorway bridge by the time they go. It is constant cooking and eating, cooking and eating for 3 months. It is a constant nightmare and completely sexist as FIL does nothing, he doesnt even carry a cup to the kitchen, even if he is walking through the kitchen to get to the downstairs bathroom. MIL does most of the cooking, though I chop and prepare all the food for her several times a day. They do like to try english food once or twice a week. The problem for me is there is no consept of a light lunch, or god forbid skipping a meal. If i'm not hungry i still make myself eat or ww3 breaks out.

I have insisted since the first visit that DH makes drinks and does the dishes, which has FIL grinding his teeth.

They have always been good about speaking english for me and I have learnt a fair bit of bengali now, can understand much more than i let on. Its not long since they went back this time and i asked them to speak mainly bengali as I wanted DS to be exposed to the language as much as possible.

I think that your in-laws are behaving appallingly but from you post it sounds like neither of you will compromise, which you must have known would be necessary when you chose to spend your life with your DH.

You need to sit with your DH and go through all the problems. Make a decision on what you will compromise on and which you wont. If you wand to save the situation you have to give some ground, would a few religious items really be so hard to swallow?

You need to give your DH a really good kick as he is the one who should be supporting you. if they try treating you like a slave make sure DH knows to get up and do the jobs instead of you. It has to come from him for them to get the message on this one if my in-laws are anything to go by. It would have been a deal breaker if my DH had not started to support me and I made sure he knew it.

Sorry for such a long post, it took us years to get to a point where I didn't want to hurt someone an hour after the plane landed.

Best not to mention my public meltdown the time they tried to rename my baby......lets just say they discovered where I had drawn the line that day!

lunar1 - your reply did bring a smile to my face (especially with the cooking and non stop eating comment - I am so with you on that!!), please don't take that the wrong way it was not because of the stress you have also gone through but just to know I am not the only one who has gone or is going through this. It is comforting to know that you can get there in the end and I think I realise now that I do need to be abit more giving in terms of accepting their culture. Thank you for your post - oh and I fully understand you on the baby naming front, my son has the middlle name 'Singh' as a compromise but I too drew the line when it came to my DD (their choice is my user name - although I actually quite like now!)

They are certainly being very disrespectful to you, although what I don't really understand is whether they are horrible to you because you got off on the wrong foot or whether they are horrible to you because you are not Indian. As someone else put it further up, I can see how living together when you are unmarried would have got their back up (although I don't see why you should have to cave on this particular point) and how the thing with the picture was disrespectful. On the latter point you should have just bitten the bullet and accepted it. I don't think it costs anything to accept a present graciously, even if it goes against your principles.

However, its too late for this now, your sins are definitely minor ones, and it may well be that they just have it in for you because you're English (I presume) and not what they had in mind.

If you think you may be able to talk to them or make some sort of gesture that would be an olive branch, try to do it. If you really think there's no mending it then you have to get your husband on side, ask him to back you up and show them a bit of backbone. They are being totally unreasonable if they expect to spend every other weekend with you yet won't bother to speak your language or express any courtesy for your life. You have a life and a culture and values as well, they live in your country (I assume) and therefore they don't get to railroad your DH into behaving as if he lived in the Punjab.

I certainly think your DH should present them with an ultimatum: if they want to spend so much time with you they must speak in a language you understand and must treat you with more respect. If they aren't prepared to do this they can't expect to treat your home as if it were their own.

As a starting point you can get your husband to speak to them in English when you are all talking. He can build a translation into the comments so you can follow e.g. You want to know why we are doing xxxx, we are doing it because... that way you can follow the conversation and contribute and the point is made about speaking Punjabi in front of you. However, depending on his parents background you need to remember that by expecting them to speak English (which is the polite thing to do in the circumstances) you may be getting them to effectively speak a foreign language to their own child so sometimes they might forget. Whilst both my husband and one of his brothers speak fluent English I tend to ignore the fact that they sometimes lapse into Arabic when I am there as it is their mother tongue.

I suspect part of the problem is the differing expectations my DH is North African and whilst he will cook and clean some of his male relatives who live in DH's home country have never had to do so. My SIL when she visited decided to take on the cooking and basically went through our cupboards, fridge and freezer and helped herself to what she felt like cooking because we are family and its ok to go through other members of the family's stuff which had me grinding my teeth to avoid saying anything.

You need to sit down with your DH and find a middle ground as currently his torn between his "duties" to his parents (and the weight of their expectations) and his love for you and your children.

Your husband needs to deal with this, afterall they love him and hopefully will take it better than from you. Why is she able to order you around and stay so much? Sounds like your DH is allowing all of this.

YABU.
Why are you deigning your children's heritage and culture? If someone brought me a shamrock or a horse shoe, I would smile and say thank you. I would put it on a shelf especially from grandma. I would explain that is from grandma she thinks blah isn't that weird /interesting. You could even put a fairy up next to it and say well some people believe in fairies. It is just a picture that keeps the baby sitter /granny happy.
I have expressly banned my in-laws from using English to my children as I want my children to be bilingual and the kids need the exposure to their fathers' language.
You say that you started to learn Punjabi, maybe they are thinking. 'oh great now we don't have to struggle in English' or 'Jasminder wants to learn Punjabi we must speak it as much as possible.'
How would you like it if your husband told you not to speak English to your mother just because he didn't understand.

I do think that the visiting every week end is a bit much but the opportunity! This could be your big shop day, haircut in town, shoe shopping start a class. You have the best baby sitter language teacher free!!

tanukiton, they are not the best baby sitters if they are the sort of people who try to arrange marriages for their son while his girlfriend is in the house. Would you leave your DC with people who had no respect for you? Not to mention the taking over of the OP's house every other weekend and treating her like the maid. Insisting that people display religious objects (for a religion neither they or their DH practise) is not a gift, it's an attempt to impose their own will. Speaking a language in the OP's house that she doesn't understand (assuming that they can speak English) is just rude.

I don't think we were reading the same opening post!

tanukiton I do see what you're saying to a point, yes I do want them to learn Punjabi and I know they are lucky in some respects to have this opportunity when others don't, I also take advantage to have some 'me' time occasionally when they visit but what I fear the most is just how far they will try and impose their culture/values - I have already heard grandma tell my DD how she will teach her how to cook/make roti when she is older so she can look after and care for her DH. My MIL has turned down opportunities to meet up with old friends even after saying she is lonlely and bored at home because she says she would not have time later to cook and prepare meals for my FIL (who does not lift a finger!). I have caught my FIL passing his gold chain of a guru asking my DS to kiss it (yes I am serious!), my DS is 3yrs so for him it was a game but I was livid - in time they can make up their own minds on religion etc but I just don't want those kind of values/beliefs being forced/suggested upon them so young, right or wrong it is something I feel very strongly about and probably a big part of the problem.

I think the issue is one of give and take, they are coming too often and being rude by expecting you to wait on them hand and foot, however I think things such as being given cultural/religious icons and them speaking their own language, including to your children, is completely par for the course in mixed culture relationships. I cannot see why you object to them learning a few words of Punjabi to them whatsoever, in fact, I think it's odd not to make it a plus, of course you can't teach them Punjabi yourself, you are not a native English speaker!!!

I am in a mixed culture relationship, and part of that is respecting the other culture, if you wouldn't refuse a little Buddha in your house from a Buddhist, why be all funny about their religious icon, which is probably cultural as well. I have loads of icons in my house, they are fascinating and part of my children's other cultural heritage. If you and your husband are united in rejecting that, then I think he should be the one to tell them (why make yourself into the bad guy), if you are not, then why are you rejecting the symbols of his culture?

And, chatting to themselves in Punjabi would be fine by me, my husband and his parents talk all the time in their own language, and I always insist they do if they are having long conversations, otherwise it is very artificial for them. Again, messages left in their own language are fine by me. I expect them to speak English to me as I don't understand their language, but expecting everyone to always speak your language is too much.

The endless visits are too much, though and I would establish with your husband what you think is reasonable on that front, once every two weekends for a whole weekend is a lot. But I think it's better if he takes the lead in laying out what you find acceptable as a family unit, rather than making this any more a clash of cultures than it needs be.

Sorry, you are not a native Punjabi speaker!

Kissing an icon is really neither here nor there (IMO), what about their culture and values are you prepared to accept, or is the anwer really nothing, which begs the question of why you married someone who may well be very attached to that culture and want the children to have at least some exposure to it.

jasminder I so feel for you. I have/had the same situation with my in-laws. Though unbelievably they are Scottish so you think it wouldn't be difficult. But it sounds just the same; speaking dialect in front of me, bringing Scottish tat over all the time (coming home to find my mantelpiece had five china highland cattle and all my stuff had gone awol was a fave moment), encouraging DH ex girlfriends to come over, being v difficult, bringing Scottish food with them (like we have no food in England??) etc etc.

Basically, just like your in laws mine would never approve of me because I wasn't one of them. You can't chang ethat.

But....what I have realised over time is that me and DH should have stood up to them at the very start. DH eventually did stand up to be counted but literally 20 years too late. Instead of resolving it we no longer speak at all and the kids haven't seen their grandparents in several years.

So like many posters I'd say get DH on side right now and draw a clear line in the sand before the relationship goes further downhill. Plus put the portrait of the god in the downstairs loo

Jasminder, you need to be more 'crafty' for want of a better word. When Grandma talks about cooking roti with DD, why not jump in and ask her to teach the whole family. make it clear that you love to cook as a family ans want to make sure DD and DS are self sufficient before going to university, and you would love to all be able to make their traditional dishes, DH especially! As 3 your DS will love making a mess with the flour. MIL will grind her teeth at first, but if you show an interest and want to learn, but on your terms they wont argue and if they do its 100% them in the wrong not you. We have learnt dome lovely bengali dishes as a family and I smile quietly inside when DH cooks when they are here as it is my small victory!

You need to try not to be so fearful of the culture and religion. If one of them says something to your children you don't like or don't want them to do, just ask them about it at the time. Ask what the significance is, my MIL likes to bless me and DS not in a pushy way just because it is her belief. It really doesn't do any harm.

I get the feeling your DH has led you up the garden path slightly when you met. Even if he told you he was non practicing of his religion, aspects of the religion are ingrained into the culture ( at least with all the Indians i have met vis DH) that it is much more a way of life than you often find with a non-practicing christian. Sorry I am not expressing this very well DS 2 is due in 2 weeks and I keep getting distracted by braxton hicks!

I think you are being extremely unreasonable. Sorry. You sound a bit controlling. Why don't you want your DCs to learn Punjabi without you learning it? This represents half of their culture. How would you like it if your DH told your parents that they weren't allowed to speak English to their grandchildren?

Also, the matter of the picture. You say your DH isn't religious. Doesn't matter - he's still a Sikh by birth and culture. You should have accepted the picture with a smile and said thank-you. You didn't have to put it up.

They didn't want their DS to marry you and I appreciate that this grates and that you will probably never forgive them for this. But your ILs are going to be your inlaws for a long time unless you get divorced and if i were you, I would be doing my absolute best to get on with them. It sounds like you take great pleasure at thwarting them at every turn. Don't ask your DH to choose between you and them. He may choose you but at what cost?

As someone in a mixed culture relationship I think it is important to recognise and respect your partner's heritage. I know that no matter how English my kids appear to everyone else they are half North African and that should be respected and celebrated.

I expect my DH to speak Arabic to our kids partly so they will learn it and partly because it must be really odd not to speak your mother tongue to your own children. I'm not sure I understand why you mind his parents leaving your DH messages in Punjabi if that is their mother tongue, I wouldn't expect my BIL to leave my husband a message in English because we live here or French because he lives in France of course he is going to leave a message in Arabic.

I found your comment that you will learn Punjabi "as I would love to catch them out one day" quite revealing of how negatively you view your in laws. My DH's friends and family chat away in Arabic and I never assume that anything worrying is being said, those conversations I can follow are usually quite mundane.

As for your MIL treating you like a maid; I suspect she is simply replicating how she was treated as a daughter in law. Her expectations of the role of a DIL are different to yours neither of you are right or wrong you are just approaching the situation from a different set of assumptions. This is where your DH needs to step up and act as a bridge between the two cultures.

If I have learnt nothing else, 15 years in a mixed culture relationship have taught me never to automatically assume that someone from a different culture is starting with the same set of expectations or norms in any given situation and that compromises are inevitable.

If they are going to play the cultural card, try beating them at their own game. Tell them from now on instead of their every visit treating you exactly as they would a punjabi dil, it will only be every other. The other one the household will be run according to your culture. Meals including preparation etc will be British (I've just realised you haven't explicitly said this so if I've assumed wrong then apologies and insert your culture here!) so you get to cook, prepare or get mil to be your chivvy and make fil do the washing up .

Or maybe do it as one day her way, next day your way. If they are expecting you to learn their culture, no reason why they shouldn't learn yours. And I'm guessing you are not living in the Punjab so you are also helping them acquire the culture of their adopted country...

I am guessing that if you went to their house they wouldn't expect you to walk in and take over or do things as you like or expect them. So why should they get to do this to you?

I'd also start to vary the every other weekend routine as soon as you can. Might be easier to start with knocking the odd visit out - could you arrange some other guests to come or go away for a weekend to see other people or to celebrate something? Could your parents come to stay at the same time or even just visit for a day while they are there? Anything to get rid of their fixed in concrete visits.

You could also start to really wind them up if you felt like it by talking about getting your dc christened/signed up into another faith. Could be interesting even if you have no plans to actually do so - depends how much you want to push home to them that you are different and want to potentially upset them!

lunar1 should be made minister of Multiculturalism by the sceptical Mr Cameron

I have an Indian partner and have struggled with my MIl for years.

She insists on talking in gujerati to him in front of me, to the absolute exclusion of using english. I wouldn't mind, but she has lived here for over 40 years, has worked full-time and conducts all her appointments/business in english with no problems whatsoever. So, I can only conclude that she does it to exclude me.

She doesn't consider me and my children (DP's step-children) to be family. She quite often talks (to me) about it not being too late for him to have a 'proper' family.

She believes that the only reason our house is clean is because he likes to have a clean house. She stayed with us while her kitchen was being refitted and saw for herself how little much he does around the house. In spite of this, the house and garden are the way they are due to his hard work, not mine.

She believes that my sons need to be taught how to cook, clean, etc because it is only right, but that he doesn't have to do anything because he is a man. What does she think my sons are going to be? The thing that really makes me smile about that is the contradiction in regards to my house, its clean becuase he does it, but he doesn't have to do it because he's a man.

Over the years, I have learnt to smile sweetly in front of her and then vent off to friends after. At one stage, it caused so many problems, I thought about leaving him, but deep down thats what she wants to happen. I will never be good enough for her precious boy, but I am his choice and she knows that she can't change his mind, so she works on me instead.