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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as [2]

1007 replies

garlicnutter · 04/07/2011 15:37

... not a feminist?

Since I killed the old one.

OP posts:
Carminagetsprimal · 04/07/2011 22:02

I do think Hully is just a little bit too bloody brilliant -

garlicnutter · 04/07/2011 22:04

What you've said about Mumsnet in general and the SN boards in particular, GC, is just what I would have hoped for on the feminism boards. I voted for the section because I thought Hurrah! A place where other feminist-minded folks can talk, exchange ideas and swap info. I might learn something. I know lots of other MNers are interested to hear more, this'll be great!

I didn't expect it to become a self-affirming hideout for radical feminist academics to exchange similar ideas and show intolerance to those with different ideas, or with a less academic perspective. Simply because that's not how Mumsnet is.

The heart-searching Feminism threads about becoming more user-friendly tended to finish on resolutions to be "nicer", sprinkle more love & glitter, and to set up a Feminism 101 thread (it's quite good imo). That is: the debaters patronisingly assumed the scared visitors didn't know or understand feminism, needed girly shite to sweeten the pill and should be educated. It was mentioned that, perhaps, new posters needed respect. But that wasn't followed through; it went back to 'glittery nice'. I don't see that as respectful or equal.

exotic and GC, I can get ever so worked up about our society's current attitude to teenagers and I haven't even got any of my own! I suspect your teenage boy suffers demonisation at around the same time as his teenage sister suffers sexual objectification ... of course, they are both responsible for all our social and economic ills Hmm

Who the hell told a 7-year-old he's a potential rapist??!
OK, I'll see if that's been answered already ... somebody's radfem mother/aunt/grandmother, is my guess. Poor kid :(

OP posts:
Hullygully · 04/07/2011 22:06

Carmina, thanks you, that is very kind. But i'm not really, I'm just old.

StayFrosty · 04/07/2011 22:07

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HerBeX · 04/07/2011 22:08

"Yes, but only if they are willing to accept the premise of feminism in the first place."

Well yes, but that's what the feminism board is for. It is generally accepted that the premise of feminism is valid and tht discussion is taking place within a generally positive view of feminism.

You have the rest of the world that tells you that feminism is irrelevant, outdated and unnecessary. The feminism board on MN is one little feminist space on the net among masses of anti or non feminist spaces.

Do you really want to begrudge us that?

garlicnutter · 04/07/2011 22:10

That damn tooth fairy! S/he's got a LOT to answer for Angry

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 04/07/2011 22:13

I don't begrude it at all-I just don't see why all views have to be 'one size'. I am a feminist-nothing has changed- except that in future I will add it to threads to avoid.

LeninGrad · 04/07/2011 22:14

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StayFrosty · 04/07/2011 22:15

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LeninGrad · 04/07/2011 22:15

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HerBeX · 04/07/2011 22:17

at Stayfrosty

That question still hsn't been answered.

Who told a 7 year old that he was a potential rapist?

And why has he understood that concept so well that he cried for 2 days?

I sometimes feel I lead a very sheltered life.

exoticfruits · 04/07/2011 22:18

Maybe it should come with a warning-I had no idea-but I do now and it has been heartening to know that I am not alone. Had I known I wouldn't have posted anything.

LeninGrad · 04/07/2011 22:19

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StayFrosty · 04/07/2011 22:23

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HerBeX · 04/07/2011 22:24

God yes people were always being told to do searches in the archives.

Newbies used to regularly flounce off to Netmums

HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 04/07/2011 22:25

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HRHMJOFMAGICJAMALAND · 04/07/2011 22:28

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tougholdbird · 04/07/2011 22:33

can I just say that as a long time lurker in feminist section I have never seen anything like as nasty as the attacks being made on this thread on particular individuals, who are not being named but might as well be.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 04/07/2011 22:34

I am finding it rather ironic on this thread that one of the posters vociferously against the feminist section (and certain posters therein) has the [partial] honour of converting me to feminism. About a year or so ago I was supporting her on one of her threads (both of us under different names) and dittany was also on it. She told her that she was being sexist. I didn't think so at the time and then a few posts later thought that actually dittany may have had a point Hmm. I re-read the thread again and saw the sexism in it, and was ever more converted to the dark side.

[mwahahahaha]

Keep up the work the rest of you, you may help convert a few more Wink

Goblinchild · 04/07/2011 22:37

I'm all for people reading with their brains switched on. Smile

MarySueFTW · 04/07/2011 22:38

1) the number of women in Parliament/in the Cabinet is decreasing rather than increasing
Agreed, not good or fair. I'd replace the House Of Lords with the most representative reflection of all sexes and classes, but what do I know? In the meantime, I don't mind all women shortlists but really I'd rather stick with 'best person for the job' and hope that women keep proving its them - and women vote for them too. If they are, which is hard to tell as they are all mostly a shower of shit.

2) abortion rights are constantly under threat
Don't agree.

3) women continue to be objectified in the media
Personally, I don't agree with this objectification idea. Women are pretty things, both men and women like looking at them. I think the wider non-feminist society has heard this 'objectification' argument, thought about it, and rejected it. The same for porn, sorry porn-haters, more people either like it, don't care, or think it falls under freedom of choice.
And as for media images, never before in my life have women been portrayed as so perfect and men as such silly little boys or potential paedos/rapists etc. *

4) 2 women a week are killed by their partners in the UK. This hardly registers on the news - imagine if it was the other way round.
I think domestic violence against women gets a lot of attention, it's a soap favourite, it's in The Guardian every other day... consequently every one agrees it is a terrible thing - and the other way around gets very very little attention, until very very recently. It's one man killed by a female partner every two weeks apparently. Ever hear that stat before? Oh, and even then, it was his fault he got killed because he was probably an abuser and it's being a 'DV apologist' to suggest that people use the door rather than a kitchen knife to solve their problems.

5) Only 3% of the CEOs of the top 500 companies are women - and that number has not increased for 3 years.
How many are from poor bgs? Or black? As I have said before, the world is run by the super-rich - and the super-rich men do the one main job. Combo of best person for the job and yes there is institutionalised sexism there - but then again, how many women, like how many men, are ever going to be in that position either? And if they are, are they going to help other women? I doubt it. Don't care about helping super-rich anyone, they'll be fine.

6) women outnumber men at University and as graduates - and have done for more than 10 years. But men still occupy the vast majority of higher echelon jobs.
The first bit is a success, yes? Maybe we need all-men short-lists or affirmative action to help those boys? Again, higher echelon jobs, bit of dying Patriarchy/jobs for the connected boys, mostly don't care about anyone earning over 50 grand.

7) Women working full time earn on average 16% less than men.
I've looked into this argument, and despite not being an economist, I am convinced by the argument that the 'wage gap' is explained by the different jobs and hours men and women choose to do. Where it isn't, er, more laws that say it's illegal to discriminate... or what are the other solutions on the table?

MarySueFTW · 04/07/2011 22:40

most politicians = shower of shit, not women, of course.

joaninha · 04/07/2011 22:41

HRH - I certainly am not "flouncing" as my petticoats are at the dry cleaners today but why on earth would anyone want to stay in a thread where they are constantly being told they are something they are not?

So, off I "flounce" again ....

HerBeX · 04/07/2011 22:42

HRH, I was responding to this:

""Yes, but only if they are willing to accept the premise of feminism in the first place."

Um, that is what the feminism section is for. Hence my response.

Who are these 2 or 3 people then? I'd like to know. Is there a list somewhere? Grin

Carminagetsprimal · 04/07/2011 22:46

Really interesting post MarySue.

Thank you.

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