to despair of our selfish society.

[york78]

Just one example. Person moaning because they are late home because someone committed suicide by throwing themselves in front of a train. No thought for the despair that person must be feelling or the distress of that persons family. Or the trauma suffered by the driver of train.

I agree york.. there's no need to weep and wail, but definitely no need to moan about it!

Bloody hell, a few hours inconvenience? - big deal! In comparison to the desperation that person felt, and the sadness felt by friends and family.

To those that have called it 'selfish' -If it had been someone you knew, or a child so bullied, or a victim of DV driven to utter worthlessness, that they couldn't go on.. Would you call it selfish then?

Thank you Jellykat. So true.

I could rant.. i really could!

If noone had compassion for others and their circumstances, it would be one hell of a shite world to live in.

But some people don't have compassion unfortunately.

Just re-read my own post, to clarify, I am calling myself selfish if I were to leave my DS without a mother.

Maybe during grief of losing a loved one you would think them selfish to leave you (isn't there an anger stage?). Its not selfish, its bloody heartbreaking to think that a loved one was in so much mental pain they felt there was no way they could come back from that and just could not take it anymore.

for goodness sake, who's saying we all have to feel everyone's pain to the max so we are a poleaxed world, ground to a halt because of everyone's pain? Let's not go from one extreme to the other - imo it is staggeringly selfish to grumble that the train you are travelling on is held up because some poor, desperate soul did this to themselves. I for one can't imagine the agony people are in to do something like this, and when I was on such a train the sorrow I felt for the suicide, the driver, the family, made me stop thinking about myself for a minute. or two - actually, quite a while because we all heard and felt the wheels go over the body - which is an example of taking in so much and no more: it would drive me mad to think about that too much and there is a natural cut-off point when you block it out. It doesn't keep me awake at night but I do feel a lot of sadness for the unimaginable heartache left behind, sorrow that the suicide was in so much unbearable pain and relief that the pain is over for that poor human being. I don't get a compassion award for feeling like that, either.

I worked at GNER for 10 years and before that i worked at National Rail Enquires doing backshift.

You would be shocked at how many people actually do throw themselves in front of trains.

You would be even more shocked at hearing some peoples response on explaining why their train is cancelled/late

Fifi do you know if drivers/workers receive any kind of preparation (can't think of the right word but its not preparation, its late) for these circumstances? I would imagine as a driver you would be aware these sort of situations may arise, but do the company give any kind of counselling or guidance on how to handle the emotions you would go through after experiencing this?

I worked in offices so wasnt actually on the trains but i would assume they would.

in they i mean station staff and onboard train staff

I feel sorry for the unknown person who has jumped. I know that its rough for the driver. But I also feel cross that I am going to be late ( again ).

Also you get blase after many years commuting. To paraphrase Stalin, One death is a tragedy, by the time you get to 10 or so it's a nuisance.

I agree in a way as i can see it from both sides. When i worked at national rail enq we had a big board which would flash up 'fatality at bodmin park'. I can remember being shocked the first few times i seen it. After a while it didnt really register. You then had to explain why the train was late and most people i would say were not interested.

yeah, I just bet those greedy lying fat cats in charge of First Capital Connect are prepared to fund extra time for trainee drivers to be taught how to handle the stress of actually being forced to kill someone.

Not sure there is anything that can prepare someone for that, tbh. And even if there was, I'd be amazed if the shysters who run the privatized rail companies would fund it up front. (Although I suppose they may fund something after the fact.)

Some drivers can never do the job again after a jumper. They lose their mental health and their livelihood.

As for 'ooh, it's so nasty making a fuss about a delayed journey when someone has died' - it may sound trivial to you, but commuting is incredibly stressful in the first place. A serious problem that causes chaotic delays and cancellations can be almost unbearably stressful. Especially if you NEED to be back on time to pick up your child and are panicking about how many ruddy hours late you are going to be. Or are on your way to work and worried about how late you are going to be, how the hell you are going to get all your work done, and how on earth you are going to manage to leave on time to pick up your child.

I had a particularly nightmarish journey last Friday, where it was absolute chaos and at one point was stood at a station, watching the departure board going crazy with a long list of cancellations that kept changing, an announcer who was struggling to tell us what was going on, contradicting what the recorded announcements and departure boards were saying. We were all trapped in a massive crowd, boiling hot, and that was just on the platforms - once the train finally pulled in we were jammed into each other's body crevices, boiling hot and the train kept stopping in the middle of nowwhere, with the poor driver saying 'I'm trying to contact the signaller but having no luck so far'.

Worst thing was it was my childminder's daughter's first Brownie promise ceremony. I had specifically arranged to leave work early to make sure I was on time to pick ds up come hell or high water. So my stress levels were off the scale - the thought that my childminder might miss something so important to her dd was terrible. The lack of control and lack of information make it 100 times worse. And traveling in those conditions makes you feel ill - seriously close to fainting.

I do understand that suicidal people are mentally ill and far too consumed by their own pain to give much thought to the consequences of their actions on others. But the impact other people can be catastrophic (drivers, train crew, the poor sods who have to clear up) or extremely physically, mentally and emotionally stressful (the passengers).

P.S. Despite leaving work 30 minutes early, I was late. Making my childminder late for the ceremony. Thank heavens one of the other families whose child was making her first promise was also delayed, so Brown Owl held on.

btw, my Dad was driving a steam engine when some idiot woman decided to play chicken at a level crossing. Tons of steam engine traveling at 50mph won, of course.

I am, of course, aware that in some cultures, and at certain times in our history, suicide can be viewed as an act of altruism, if not heroism, and I can but admire those who are willing to sacrifice their lives for the good of others.

I also ascribe to the right of the terminally ill to end their lives with dignity if this is their unconstrained and carefully considered choice, although this is not an action that I feel able to wholeheartedly approve of.

Nevertheless, I will continue to maintain that throwing oneself in front of a train or other form of public or private transport, or committing suicide in any public place, is an act of selfishness, ifancyashandy, and if that offends you too, CQ, I am willing to engage in debate provided only that you refrain from bandying insults and demonstrate that you are capable of arguing your, as yet unknown, point.

I am not without understanding of those who feel driven to such extreme lengths, nor am I without pity for them, but, once the deed is done, my compassion is reserved for the living; the father whose delayed journey means he misses the birth of his child, the relative who arrives too late to say a final goodbye to their dying loved one, and for those whose lives are impoverished, or who are caused needless stress and anxiety, because of the actions of one inconsiderate individual.

Perhaps less hand-wringing and more thought to providing improved services for the mentally ill should be the order of the day?

here we go again, suicide is selfish, spoken only from the ignorant mouths of those who have no concept of mental torture, ignorance is bliss, there must be lots of happy people cos there sure is a lot of ignorance, walk a mile in a depressive's shoes and THEN JUDGE, you ignorant fuck

If you take it that the person committing suicide isn't in their normal, rational frame of mind izzy, to me it just seems callous for you to pit (leaving out the family of the dead person and the driver) inconveniences in whoevers life has been disrupted, in a measurement against compassion for the person driven to the act.

It's almost as though you're arguing that the coldness of being irritated for the train disruption (even though they know the reason for it), is justifed because the person deciding to publically take their life (for whatever reason) was selfish and not deserving of the consideration they weren't able to show in choosing how they were going to die.

I don't know if that makes sense (it's pretty early ) or if that's what you're actually saying, but it's what I've made of reading your posts.

But I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence, hasn't it always been the sad case?

Spoken like an ignorant judgemental fuck, serajen.

Hey now, steady on serajen.

Izzy's entltled to post what she thinks, she's not abused anyone, and I don't think you should be calling her that.

Or you izzy!

Tsk, honestly.

Accepts Agents reprimand with good grace and promises to try to exercise restraint in future.

My apologies, serajen - let me buy you a , and of course one for you Agent

I'm not sure why the desperation of one person trumps the wellbeing of thousands on the train network.

Isn't it more that this method of suicide is unfairly inflicting some of your misery on the rest of the world? When i commuted (especially on the tube for some reason) having your journey severely disrupted by someone jumping wasn't particularly rare, and I am sorry but it was very annoying. I couldn't help thinking that there were other methods the person could have chosen which wouldn't haves screwed up my day. This is obviously a totally self centred view too, but then I think that is how we are all designed.

My sister's best friend jumped in front of a lorry. I remember my mother saying how totally traumatised the driver was at having effectively killed a child. I don't think this is the sort of thing you can really be prepared for - unless you serve in the military most people do not expect to kill other people.

Suicide isn't selfish, when people get to that stage they aren't seeing the world/their life they way other people are seeing it. I doubt they are giving much thought if any to the inconvenience they are causing because it's way off their radar.

So I don't think it's fair to accuse them of being selfish.

However, I don't think it's fair to accuse an irritated person who is inconvenienced by it selfish either.

Can I roll out the, what if one of the people inconvenienced was a heart surgeon on their way to perform life saving surgery...

The rest of the world doesn't stop because somebody has jumped off a bridge onto a motorway/jumped in front of a train. The people who are inconvenienced have to phone work/childminders/meetings to explain why they're going to be late which in turn inconveniences them. They have to bring in other people to cover you, which inconveniences them....

I wouldn't be nasty about the person who had committed suicide, but I would be irritated if I was trying to get home after a long day at work, or a trip away from my children who I was really excited about seeing.... My compassion might have to wait.

Maybe that person is so desperate after waiting so long on the mental health team to get something done for them that they give up waiting.
Mental illness is bottom of the list along with disability within the NHS. When people need help they invariably do not get it. Sometimes they may be told to come back in 6 weeks if they're lucky.
To jump off a bridge/under a train implies they absolutely mean to die. it's not a cry for help. They are wayyy past that stage. They are so low and depressed that they feel this is the only way and that they are doing their friends and family (presuming they have them) a favour by disappearing.