to feel this way about motorbikes?

[WriterofDreams]

Having seen an "think bike" ad this morning I started wondering, should they be banned completely? It just strikes me as odd that you can get fined for not wearing a seatbelt or for talking on a phone while driving and yet, despite the fact that on average your risk of dying on the road is 35 times higher on a motorcycle than in a car, motorcycles are still valid road vehicles. I know loads of people love them and I have nothing against them per se and I do have a sense that banning them would be sort of a nannyish move. On the other hand I know no one who has been in a serious car accident but my FIL, two uncles and cousin have all been in serious bike accidents. None of them would ever ride a bike again and my uncle in particular feels that they should be banned, despite being obsessed with them when he was younger.

A doctor friend of mine said that fatality rates are so high among motor bike accident victims that they're referred to as "organ donors" before they even arrive. Why are such dangerous vehicles considered a valid form of transport?

That's what I was thinking Mrs Bethel, yes car drivers cause accidents but it's the bikers who die.

That was ment to be proper gear is hot in summer, but not as hot as gravel rash to the bone. That can happen at low speads.

Pompoko, when I see people riding in nowt but helmet, tshirt, shorts & trainers I internally cringe. Imagine the road rash/degloving etc if they crashed?!
Not to mention those who don't wear back braces/supports.

As others have said, the problem isn't the motorcyclists. It's the car/bus/lorry drivers who are cocooned in their steel safety cells and think they're invincible so don't need to look where they're going or consider road users who aren't on four wheels. If every car driver was forced to ride a motorbike I think motorbike fatalities would drop significantly. I rode one until recently and it certainly made me a more considerate road user.

My Uncle was killed on a motorbike at 49....he was a safe rider, the Bertha in the 4x4 wasn't looking.

Awomancalledhorse my bil came off his bike going about 8mph without any protecton. He lost most of the skin up one side of his body. He quikly got proper gear after that

I had someone reverse over my bike while it was parked up and I was in the bank queuing!

Another time a car pulled out of a junction into my path. All I remember is thinking ooooo fuck I am gonna hit him, then seeing the wire elements in his rear window as I went up and over his roof.

He pulled up further up the road and swore blind I hadn't hit him despite all the parts of plastic the same colour as his bumper that fitted into the now missing bits of his bumper.

The car coming the other way that also had to swerve to avoid the guy pulling out was about 3 times as far as I was, I had no chance to miss him!

Some people don't even look let alone look for bikes.

YABU my DP has been in several bike accidents and NONE of those were his fault. They were all caused by driving without due care and attention by a CAR driver. (which is punishable by 6 points on your license and a £500 fine).

Perhaps the more sensible thing to do would be to make all car drivers take a CBT? Might be a few less drivers on the road not seeing bikes. Bikers don't tend to crash with eachother- it's usually cars crashing into them. Motorbikes aren't dangerous but dickheads not paying attention are.

My ex and I had a hayabusa, the fastest most powerful motorcycle on the road. It's capable of over 200mph and 0-100 in 5 seconds!!
We did thousands of miles on that bike, here and in Europe and yes we did do 200mph several times and yet we are both still here!!
He was a very careful rider, very aware of what was going on around him and considerate of other drivers.

Ironically he came off it doing 30mph on a roundabout and slipped on some diesel that had been spilt from a lorry.

No, not banned. I'd quite like to go on a Bike Aware Course (for the free childcare if nothing else ). And if no free childcare... er, well, that's why I'll probably never go on on one :(. And motorbikes potentially offer a lot of env. benefits, for that alone I quite like them on the roads in principle (have even suggested it to DH for commuting).

Still, I find motorbikes hard to see & have occasionally cut one up (sorry); I don't presume to be a "good" driver, still I try very hard to be careful, observant and relaxed; motorbikes just are harder to see than bigger vehicles. And the way they often suddenly squeeze up between other vehicles, all going at high speeds, it's well dodgy potentially. Makes it all the harder to see them when they appear out of nowhere.

We are keen cyclists btw, if you want to talk about identifying with a group of vulnerable road users who can't believe how pushy & inconsiderate & oblivious other road users can be...

When a car pulls up at a junction consider how easy it is for them to not see:

• A car
• A bicycle (small, but slow moving)
• A motorbike (small, and very quick)

Of course it's the car drivers fault. But if your life depends on fifty strangers spotting a difficult-to-spot-thing every single day, then sooner or later the odds are gonna catch up with you.

Your life in their hands. And they're fucking blind, clueless idiots.

Well said Mrs Bethel. I suppose overall motorcyclists are going to ride their bikes regardless of the dangers. I definitely agree that other motorists need to be a lot more careful I just wonder if the risk is really worth the enjoyment of riding. Most bikers would probably say it is. One thing's for sure, DS will get on a bike over my dead body!!

YABU.. % wise you are more likly to hurt or kill yourself riding a horse than you are a motorbike. Do you also realise that only 5% of accidents on the roads involve motorbikes, however you are right that there is a higher likelyhood you will die in 'said' motorbike accident than if you were in a car.

I'm a biker, have been for years, and I do think that, not only helmets, but leathers, boots and gloves should be made a legal requirement. Not so much for the rider as they will have been taught about why you should wear decent protective gear whilst learning to ride, but its the pillions that I see wearing jeans that I feel sorry for, because unless you've seen it, you probably wouldn't realise that jeans will wear away in a second, promptly followed by skin and bone. A 30 mph crash will normally result in skin grafts.

But.. each to their own, I wouldn't have anyone tell me I couldn't ride my bike, it's none of their business, the same way I wouldn't tell anyone not to ride a horse, or walk along a road, or drive a car.

If my DS or DD said he/she wanted a bike, I'd make sure he/she went about it in a sensible way and wore the right gear. I know of plenty of 30+ year olds who have been riding for years and their parents still don't know about it because they were banned from riding whilst living at home. Give them the facts and guide them as best you can, because the more you ban it, the more likly they are to do it once they can.

One more thing :o I also think everyone should be taught how to ride a bike. It would ensure that a lot of car drivers would be a lot more aware of bikers on the road and realise that, such things as spilling diesel, can have dangerous consequences.

Another biker here - commuting 50 mile round trip every day rain or shine (but not snow or ice, I'm not mad :)

As many others have said, the majority of motorcycle accidents are "right of way" accidents, when another vehicle (usually a van or lorry rather than a car) pulls out, changes lane, rearends or otherwise violates the bikers right of way. The MAIDS study here has all the details.

Banning motorcycles is one way round this, but we don't tolerate victim-blaming anywhere else on MN so why should we here?

Better solutions:

• Better training for all drivers, particularly around observation and hazard assessment. The new driving tests are already working towards this.

• Better training for bikers. Defensive riding, observation drills, roadcraft. All these are now being taught more in the new bike test (which is MUCH harder and more involved than the car test). IAM courses are great.

• Be seen and be heard. A white helmet, hi-vis (particularly at rush hour and in low visibility) and a feckin loud bike go a long way.

I always used to be amazed at the number of people who would look straight through me and pull out on me. Or change lane without checking their mirrors and try to take me out. Buying a Speed Triple with Arrows exhaust with no baffles in and the number dropped dramatically - lucky how many seemingly blind people aren't deaf