Salary of just under 40K in London for me and DS

[EsperaTaChikita]

Seeing as an old thread has been revived with a similar dilemma, I thought I would start a new thread on a similar topic.

So, people have been telling me that this is doable, but I'm calculating at the moment and it's not looking good:

Travel costs (commuting from Zone 5 to Zone 1): £180
Student loan/Post-graduate loan repayment: £400
Average rent (1 bedroom flat): £700 (yes, rents in my area have shot through the roof!)
Childcare/CM for toddler DS (£48 a day for 11 hours): £1040

That's pretty much all of my salary gone, before food, utilities, household stuff for myself and DS (nappies, soap, detergent, toilet paper etc) and any unexpected extras. I already cut mine and DS's hair myself, have tried toilet-training DS but to no avail.

I keep thinking to move even further out, but then even if rent is cheaper, it means travel will cost more, and I'll need even more hours of childcare for DS. I've thought about finding another family to share a place with, but no luck on my NM local page. Plus, H has made it clear that he will fight that all the way as he is in a position to care for DS in a more stable environment.

I have no family or friends nearby that can help with childcare. 11 hours a day is a conservative estimate, the job I'm going into is likely to require much more than that on occasion (someone I know in a similar job has just done a 37hr shift from Thursday through to Friday non-stop!). Someone suggested a live-in au pair, but an au pair would not (and in fact, should not) be providing that much childcare - for that, I'd need a nanny, and the cost of a live-in nanny in London is even more expensive than what we are currently paying for a CM. Some nurseries work out cheaper than our CM, but that's because they are open a max of 10 hours a day.

If I leave this job, I'll have to repay fees to the tune of approximately £12,000, so that's not an option (I am also VERY unlikely to find another job as well paid in the short and long-term).

I can get some contribution from DS's father, but not much, especially as his costs will be about the same as mine travel, loan and mortgage-wise (for a house in negative equity). Trying to move somewhere cheaper but much further away is likely to turn what has so far been an "amicable" split (in the weakest sense of the word) into a full blown WW3! And again, I'm still faced with longer travel, more childcare etc.

Apparently, because I am in the higher tax bracket, I will not qualify for CTC or WTC. I qualify for CB, but £81.20 a month will in no way cover food for both of us for the entire month, let alone anything extra.

So, can someone please help me out and tell me just how the hell I can free myself and DS of H, short of quitting my job, trying to get housed by the council (fat chance!), then getting a lower paid job where I can then claim associated benefits?

The only other options I have are leaving DS with H full-time, which has me tearing up every bloody second! I know it makes sense money-wise and practicality-wise (H's job is not as full-on as mine, so he would be able to work around regular childcare hours), but I don't want to leave my son. We got to this point because he cheated, and it just feels like I'm being punished for something I didn't do (that may make me sound like an over-emotional teenager, but at this point, I don't care!)

Alternatively, remaining in the family home for the next 2 years with H, by which point I should be earning more than enough to make ends meet, and even with some money left over each month.

I've made an appointment to see my local CAB to see what other options are open to me, but feeling very despondent at the moment (not even taking into account the emotional turmoil I'm in as to why I find myself in this situation in the first place - see here and here).

I am more than happy to be told that I am being unreasonable but every option I think of leads to another obstacle.

So, if you have read this far:

WItBU to quit my job, divorce H, go on benefits until I can find a different job to fit around DS (not being flippant, it just seems the most straight-forward way to keep full-time residency for my DS, although it may be that I am not entitled to certain benefits if I have deliberately made myself homeless/quit my job etc)

or

WItBU to leave my DS with H in the knowledge that it will solve problems financially but means I will be giving up full-time residency of my DS and seeing him only on weekends, if that? (I can share with people and reduce my rent substantially, but it means I am unlikely to be able to have DS stay overnight unless I find people/a family that would be happy to accommodate this) I can't bear the thought of DS growing up thinking that I abandoned him!

or

WItBU to grit my teeth and try and get through the next 2 years with H in the same house, knowing that at the end, we'll be in a far better position to make things work financially when the divorce goes through?

Oh, and just in case H is reading this (yes, he's even taken to spying on me on MN! - the only reason I vent on here is because the best friend I would have vented to is the one who's betrayed me!), you are a bastard and frankly, wishing death on you would be too kind!

Mini - am so glad I never fancied a career like that. You just don't think of how family friendly an employer is when you are a wipper snapper deciding what to do. Or indeed till you find out you are pregnant more likely.

Titchy - Good idea to kick him out of the home and stay put with a Nanny if that is enforceable. Sounds like the twat is trying to have his cake and eat it even when he is the one to break the marriage. How bloody awful.

Is your maintenance payment factored in?

It is easy to say stay put for now, it is only a couple of years - after which you will be hugely better paid and able to afford a nanny and a lovely, stable environment for your DS.

Only you know whether that is something you're prepared to do.

I really feel for you OP - rock and a hard place doesn't come into it :( I wish you the very best of luck.

I think living centrally could work too. What about Stepney / Whitechapel (anywhere East and cheapish)? I've lived there when a trainee and found it pleasant. I would happily have a child there. You could walk to the city and find a childminder who can be flexible re your working hour.

Sooty it's undeniable, it's not a particularly family friendly career, and you're right I didn't think about that when I was 20 and choosing what to do! On the plus side, it does pay very well, and I enjoy the intellectual challenge. The industry is gradually waking up to ideas like part time and working from home... so it will become easier, I hope.

Espera can your H contribute towards the childcare?

I know this will be an unpopular thing to say, but it seems very harsh on your DS for him to stay with a childminder 11 hours a day when he has another parent who could do more of the caring. I'm prepared to take your word for it that your H is a faithless SOB, but is he a bad father.

Residency should not be a reward for the parent who has behaved better within the marriage, it should be decided on the basis of what's best for the child, and I think you need to discuss this again with your bastard H taking only your DSs interests into account - maybe agreeing residency with a temporary limit, or sharing residency during the week - if DS lived with his father Monday-Wednesday then that would presumably improve the childcare situation significantly (also presumably H could get childcare vouchers from his work to cut the tax bill (bit out of date with how this works)).

i dunno, Dylis, I see what you mean, and on paper that makes sense, but why should op have to give up her son because her dh cheated? Her dh get to shag around, gets to keep the home and gets to keep the child. op, through outside forces rather than her own choosing loses her dh, friend, home and child too? That's not right.

op, I feel for you. I wish I could help. Hope you can find someone who can.

Espera what about the suggestion that H collect DS from childcare, has him while you finish work, then you collect him from H's once you're finished at work? Would that work? Depends whether you can get back before DS's bedtime I guess.

Dylis does make sense on paper that is why OP needs to really prioritise. I would find a new job rather than lose a child if childcare proves impossible in relation to her job.

Actually forget my last post. You need a bloody good lawyer.

OP what do you think is best for your DS ?

What a crap situation. I work in your industry and being a single parent whilst a trainee would be extremely challenging. What I would say though is that it would be a massive, massive shame to give up your job given how hard it is to get such a position to begin with. 2 years sounds like a long time but it isn?t. Seeing if you can reschedule your post grad loans is definitely worth doing.

The best option I can see would be to do some form of shared residency with your ex so he has some of the weekday responsibilities. Doing it all alone sounds exceedingly challenging and if you remain house sharing for 2 years and then move out, he?d probably be in the ?main carer? role by then for child residency purposes?

OP, I had a go on the online tax credits calculator, with approximate details for DOBs etc of course. It suggested you'd get about £45 a month child tax credits. This was assuming you're not receiving any maintenance. Not shitloads, but better than nothing. You can buy a fair bit of food with that, at least. Here is the link:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Remember that your childcare costs could reduce rapidly once your DD is 3 because teh early years nursery allowance kicks in - you get 5 half day nursery sessions free.

OP - this looks very hard.

Do not ask for flexible hours, it will affect prospects. Personally I think best choice is sitting it out with your H until your pay increases.

The cheapest & most flexible childcare for you would be a live in au-pair/nanny and then share her with another family with just one child. But then you'd need a 2 bed place. Or find a very flexible childminder.

I assume DS is 2 (from toilet training comment)... all different in 2 years time when he's at school and then you can have an au pair to take and pick up.

Espera - just a quick observation - I really wouldn't worry now about whether or not you'll get offered a place with your firm on qualification. I've had some truly rubbish trainees over the years and they have all, without exception, got a job somewhere. You may not even want to work there after 2 years anyway. The main thing is to get qualified.

I assume your firm has already invested a lot of money in you, so I would try and get them on board as much as possible. And unless you have a seat with a total bastard then I would explain your situation to your supervisor at the beginning of each seat. With blackberry, remote working etc, its much easier to get away on time and work from home once child is having dinner, in bed etc ( I used to send loads of emails while DD was having her bath!) so you can show your commitment in other ways. Also, nothing impresses a client/colleague more than getting an email at 5 in the morning - or whenever your DS gets up, in response to something they've sent at midnight! I know this won't work for some departments (someone mentioned banking I think) but they don't all require all nighters. In some seats you might be able to agree one or two nights where you will always leave on time - unless there is a real crisis.

That said, you will need some kind of back up childcare if you do get caught in the office. ExH is a good option - but also worth trying to team up with other mums for some kind of reciprocal arrangement.

And if it all gets too hard, personally I would ask to go part time (or whatever is necessary). Chances are your firm would rather you stayed the course and qualified than dropped out, which they tend to hate!

Won't give you any financial/residency advice as plenty of others with better knowledge have offered lots already.

Also, presumably you'll get a pay rise at the end of year 1 - so maybe you could stick with exH for a year and then move out?

Just a quick reply OP, but I would really try and sit tight in your current home for the next 2 years if I was in your situation. Not ideal but as you have a goal in mind and know it won't be for long I think that's what I would do for now.

Thanks to everyone for responding.

My scenarios involve me moving out because, as much as I would hate to leave my home, it doesn't seem fair to DS to have him live mainly with his father in a flat - he's an innocent party in all of this, and I want what's best for him. As much as I hate to admit it, if we do end up with separate residences, my DS deserves to remain in his home.

No matter how I try to plan it, I know that keeping my job will mean that I can't be his main carer, regardless of where I stay. It scares me to death, but I can't give this job up, I just can't! There's no other job that will afford me the same earning potential in the short and long term - I love my DS, but I need to think of how best I can provide for the both of us in the future. And, because of the hours expected, moving further away from my H would just complicate things further - we still wouldn't be able to afford a nanny and, if DS is at a CM's (no matter how flexible they are), what happens if I can't pick DS up because I'm needed to stay late? Oh, and I'm definitely NOT a Sarf London snob - the borough in which I live already has a very colourful reputation (for want of a more polite way of phrasing it!).

CAB appointment pretty much confirmed to me what I already know - moving out, although an option, would put us in financial difficulty. No matter how difficult it is considering living with H for the next 2 years, I know that were we able to manage this, it would mean I could pay off my post-graduate loan in entirety whilst still contributing towards our mortgage and building equity in our property.

So, at the moment, it looks like I'm stuck here. I have no idea what I will do if H all of a sudden decides that the situation is untenable, but I can at least bide my time and try and pay off as much debt as I can so that, should that ever happen, I'm more prepared for it. It also means that DS suffers as little disruption as possible. No matter how emotionally hard it may be for me, I have to think about what's best for him, and if that involves his mother putting her emotions on the backburner for a 2-year period so that I can see more of him and him of me AND make any future he has with me more financially secure, then so be it. Definitely not trying to be a saint - I just don't see how else I can manage it.

Thanks again to everyone for your help. I'm touched by all the suggestions and well-wishes. Now, I just need regular kicks up the arse to remind myself why I'm doing it all and avoid falling into a spiral of self-loathing and despair each time i have to look at or deal with H. (On a flippant note, despair does my figure good - half a stone lost in less than 2 weeks!)

Thanks again x

Another thought OP - when you do the 2 year rotation look out for departments that have the best work life balance - generally property / employment / litigation / taxation and not corporate! Will make it much more possible for you to continue your career and spend time with your DS longer term. Maybe worth asking for seats in these departments.

Do not expect HR to be sympathetic at all, if its a magic circle law firm I wouldn't even waste my breath! My SIL works for big law firm has several years track record and asked HR to work less hours (has 2 small DSs) for less pay and they are totally unsympathetic. She rarely gets home in time to put them to bed, even 3 years post qualification hours still dreadful BUT she is in a corporate team.