School want to change uniform, I'm not happy....

[chubbleigh]

I thought I would be in the majority by saying I don't want it to change but as it turns out I might not be. Proposal is to change from polo shirts and sweatshirts to shirts, ties, v-necks and blazers - this is for a primary school by the way. I can't imagine why anyone would want something that costs more and takes more time to look after - I just don't get it. The few opinions that I have heard so far are 'it looks cute' but to me that is not a good reason. Furthermore I have heard the school have the idea of subsidising the new uniform for a set period of time. That really gets me, I don't know where the cash would come from for this but object greatly if it is from within school money.
I have a many many reasons for not wanting it to change but the main ones are time and money.
Any experiences please.

I don't care whether my children look like their off for a hard day at the office. Smart not important at primary age - comfort is key, and the polo shirts are so comfortable.

We have the option of shirt and tie OR polo shirts. I bought shirts when dd fIrst started school, but they were so uncomfortable. Nasty poly cotton with hard collars and cuffs. Polo shirts win hands down IMO.

And so suddenly at the age of 18, they magically metamorphose into beautifully well put together adults? (Is there such a word?? Mmmm, it looks right).

Surely there are enough hours in the day for children to look scruffy without it encroaching on the time they are spending on academic learning? My children were running around the garden in knickers and crocs just before bed time for example.

As an adult, I feel more professional when I am dressed appropriately. I wear jeans on the school run and a dress to work. There's a distinction. Why can't we give our children that advantage in schools? Don't you as an adult feel different when you are wearing certain clothes? Come on, sweatshirts and polo shirts are great for tennis and going to the gym. School and education are worth so much more.

My DS managed to look like a scruffy oik in his uniform regardless

I find the number of people on this thread who are excited by the idea of 4/5/6/7 year olds looking 'smart' (as a pose to comfortable) profoundly depressing . And to say they should dress professionally as children because one day they'll have to do so in an office environment is, quite frankly, bonkers.

PS. Cheap polyester blazers do not look 'smart' they look cheap.

plus I've never seen a smart university student ever

We're talking about 4-11 year olds here. Plenty of time for them to learn to dress in appropriate clothing for business. But at 5, ds1 spends much of his time haring about and mucking about in the water/sand play. It is ridiculous to prioritise smartness over comfort and practicality for primary aged kids. Daft.

The school dd will be going to has a school uniform and all the children look lovely, and love the uniform. I can't bear the polo shirt/sweartshirt look, so scruffy and lack of effort.

Having said that, YANBU in being annoyed that the school is changing the policy when you've already shelled out for uniform. But time is really not a reason, it's an excuse. The causal uniforms look like no effort has been put in, because it hasn't.

I think small children with badly knotted ties, grubby knees and a general air of dishevelment look very sweet indeed, in a Just William manner. (Not first thing in the morning, obviously, that would look like no-one cares about them.)

ds's school has polo shirts and sweatshirts. Which are fine. But when he suddenly grew out of his school sweatshirt, there weren't any navy blue ones in stock in any of the places I tried. Ended up buying him a v-neck woollen jumper from M&S which he loves. Has refused to go back to sweatshirts ever since. No-one seems to mind - plenty of the girls wear woollen cardigans instead.

We have a choice of shirt and tie or badged polos shirts. Jumpers are badged as well.

When I say its a choice .. there are days when the kids are told to wear a shirt and tie, eg special assemblies

At £7 per polo shirt I think the shirt and tie is a cheaper option

My DD went to a pre-school where they were applauded for their smartness - boaters, blazers the lot. Fantastic school spirit.

Now she's in an all girls public school with shirts and ties, blazers and the works again and we love it - it gives a real identity to the school and is very smart.

The alumni of my DD's school are the ruling classes - all smart professional women - who wear smart clothes.

Smartness isn't magic.
It has to be there when you're growing up - like manners.

I love how people buy into the smarter the uniform the better the school

And I find it depressing and bonkers how little people seem to value education in this country when people literally prize it in other countries. On a bit of an aside, friends of mine run a school in the bush in Zimbabwe - they have children walking ten miles a day in their school blazers to attend their school and due to some weird National Park rule to get cheap admission, they ended up climbing a mountain all wearing the blazers last weekend. And they were continually stopped and congratulated and made a fuss over.

They'd think we were all bonkers even discussing this when we have so many more advantages. And they cherish those blazers for what they stand for.

I do value education ,I just don't value uniforms

"pre-school ... boaters, blazers the lot... public school with shirts and ties...ruling classes - all smart professional women..."

Thinks Could there possibly be some other causative correlation between the sort of people that go to pre-school in boaters, and girls public schools, and Old Girls getting good jobs?

Very good point, piglet.

Dorje, you do know that you can be highly educated and professional and NOT work in the City, don't you? My senior school was full of girls who went on to be professional women in high profile jobs. Our uniform did not include a tie but we had a nasty blazer and kilt combo. It was horrid and we all hated it. (School has changed it now so the girls of today do not have to suffer as we did. Lucky devils!)

Cordyblue - it is ridiculous to say that wanting children to wear something comfortable means we don't value our children's education. They need to be comfortable, not distracted by stiff collars, ties that get into everything, and blazers that don't keep them warm enough in the winter.

Children at fee-paying schools get smaller class sizes - this is the factor that improves their chances, not the uniform.

I had two sons at selective grammar schools before we moved to Scotland. Both had strict uniform policies. Since we moved, the boys can wear trainers or skate shoes, as long as they are black, and can wear fleeces or jumpers/zip up sweatshirts, as long as they are black - and I have noticed NO falling of their academic standards (both are getting prizes at Awards Night tomorrow, and ds1 got almost flawless Standard grade results) - oh, and all three dses are capable of being smart when neccessary. Dropping the blazers and lace-up leather shoes does not seem to have had any impact on their education, and I have found the other children at their school to be personable and polite, despite the lack of a strict uniform. And it is in the top 10 achieving state schools in Scotland.

Ds1 is in Reception and the uniform at his school is shirts and ties, v neck jumpers and optional blazer. In the summer they can wear polo shirts from Easter through to October half term. Ds1 has never found the shirts uncomfortable, the teachers go round at pe time and do the top button of everyone's shirt and then ask them to have a go at the rest while they wait for them to come back round, ds1 can now do most of the buttons himself. He always goes in looking smart, but comes out looking as untidy as anyone else.
With regard to cost, as none of it is emblemed (although the school have now sourced emblemed v neck jumpers at £13 a time, so no thank you) I spent less than £40 on his entire uniform last year, this consisted of 6 long sleeve shirts, 3 short sleeve shirts, 3 pairs of trousers, 3 jumpers, 10 pairs of socks and 5 vests. It was far cheaper than most of my friends were spending on their polo and sweatshirt uniforms! Ds1 is now wearing polo shirts and they are not wearing any where near as well as the shirts, they seem to stain far easier!

Also, the school have sourced clip on ties, before that they had an elasticated option and a normal tie your own tie! Ds1 has the elasticated and the clip on one, I prefer the clip on one as it looks nicer. Another school in a village near here has introduced the shirt and tie as uniform from year 1 onwards. Actually, they have gone back to them as they used to be an option when I first worked there 12 years ago.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl

In my personal experience, my DD would be in a smaller class - by at least 5 children - if she went to the village state (excellent Ofsted) school about a three minute walk from my door. The reasons I send her independent are not based on class size, but more because I want that independence away from the NC.

How about the other 9 top scottish primary schools uniforms? Could yours be the exception rather than the rule? (Note, I have NEVER stated that uniforms make a better school, more that individual children have a better attitude towards study on the whole if it's treated seriously and part of that is smart dress) .

There is a Daily Mail article (spit) from 2007 which details the top performing state schools and whether or not they wear blazers and ties. I think almost all of them do! Of course, not necessarily linked but when taken with the experience of failing city schools which have adopted a stricter uniform, it is a compelling argument for some. It might not make the school good, but it might make some of the pupils value where they are and the education they receive.

I think you have to admit that a state primary class size of 5 is a tiny exception rather than the rule, cordyblue.

I think that parental attitude to school has far more of an influence on childrens' attitudes to study than uniform does. As I said, I have seen no change in my dses attitudes to study since they moved to a school with a less strict uniform policy.

Plus, as others have said, children can be perfectly smart in polo shirt and sweatshirt - only this morning my eye was caught by a school photo of all three dses together, and they look pretty smart, but comfortable at the same time.

Re: the Daily Mail article linking the top performing schools and their use of blazer and tie uniforms - I really doubt that this is the major factor in why a school is good or bad. I suspect it is high expectations of pupils, plus firm discipline that are more important factors. I do realise that a strict uniform is part of high expectations and discipline, but I would argue that unless you have good discipline, then even the strictest of uniform policies will not be adhered to, so the discipline that enables the strict uniform policy is a more important factor than the uniform policy per se.

?? No, 5 less! Not 5 in total...! 5 in total would be unheard of in any school I imagine. I was saying if my daughter went to the local state school they'd be fewer so class size irrelevant for us. Lots of independent schools have quite large class sizes.

Completely agree with discipline policy by the way. There is also a very strong argument in favour of having something relatively minor - like having shirts that need tucking in so that THIS is what the pupils rebel against and are being constantly told to tuck it in by teachers. Much better than them smoking in front of teachers, or swearing, or something more serious. It can be a psychological tool.

Speaking as someone that have had children in schools using both polo and sweat shirts (dd1) shirt tie vneck and blazers (dd2 & ds) shirts tie and v necks / cardigans (dd1&2&3 &ds) plus shirts and sweatshirts. I can hand on heart say it makes no difference what so. Ever withregards to cleaning. Yes the blazer will need dry cleaning we had 2 because of this but it was not a big deal to deal with. Shirts come non iron. Ties they get used to.
Given the choice I would go with blazers tie and v neck I think it looks smart and encourages the children to be tidied in appearance next would pick shirt tie sweatshirt / cardigan. Lastly polo and sweatshirt. Because I found them a pain to clean and get stains out of a logo polo cost £9.50 a shirt is a few £ it is cheaper looks nicer and teaches the children to take pride in their appearance. I do not care at all for the polo and sweatshirt set up. Come September dd2 will be in shirt cardigan blazer no tie so I think then I have experienced all

Apologies for the class size mistake, cordyblue - I must have suffered a moment of brain fade - doubtless brought on by my lack of collar and tie!

I have just made myself feel rather old. Your 'unheard of' class of 5 brought my village primary school class size back to mind, and I was going to come back to this thread and tell you about a class of 12, that was the entire junior school - with only 4 in my year group. However, I have counted up how many years it is since I left that school, and am horrified by the number. Suffice it to say that if my dses were in classes with that number of pupils, I would be complaining bitterly!