to wonder how you make the point your not a pushy mother to pushy mothers?

[youarekidding]

My DS and I lived abroad until he was 2 yo, pool in communal area so very confident in water. Went to parent toddler swimming once a week when returned to UK and at 5yo he would 'swim' a lot but always under water so felt it time he learnt to swim on top.

Started local leisure centre lessons but group sizes were large and after research started DS with 'club' at same centre when he turned 6yo. (Dbro swam with them and was county/national medal winner so know they teach well)

DS has progressed quite quickly as he seems to have a flair for swimming.

Only problem is the other parents.

There are 5 classes (lessons are twice a week) in teaching pool. DS is in group 4. There are a variety of ages of children in each group but mainly seems children start at 4/5 in group 1 and leave group 5 by 8-10 yo.

There are so many pushy parents though who seem to insist on slating the way the strokes taught, boasting about there 5yo in group 5 and how they aren't moving up (everytime there are promotions) because its an age thing NOT on ability.

URGGG - Our children are young, they are learning a life skill, some will have it as a serious hobby, many will continue for excercise.

Thing is they seem to try and drag me into it with oh your DS is young too, he moves up quickly, when do you think he'll get to the 'club' group. (meaning big pool!)

When I say 'who knows' when x thinks he's ready, he's only 6 and may not want to train with a club I get replies that indicate they think my playing it cool is an act. FFS

AIBU to want to hide in changing room whilst DS swims (wouldn't as he wants me to watch) and really want to find elsewhere for him to swim. Except something tells me these parents are everywhere.

Greencolourpack, myself and one of the other mums with realistic expectations of our dcs swimming genius are planning a fly on the wall documentary of swimming clubs - hidden camera in bag etc - LOL. Looking for a channel 4 producer to float the idea .

You should come to our group. No bragging there as no child has made any progress in 8 months! It's a bloody racket and we've withdrawn our son. I've seen ONE child get a badge in all that time. ONE! The only week there was any progress was with a different teacher, then the usual one came back and we were back to square one. Again.

Fran I'm ssoooooo glad it's not just me.

Its mad I tell ya, mad!

I've had a parent exclaim 'your DS has gone up again?, Why?'. Answer was 'I have no idea I'm not a coach, ask the teacher if you want to know!' She didn't funnily enough but did question why her DD hadn't moved up when she'd started the group before, before DS. Was told she will when ready.

My Dbro was a swimmer (still is for forces) but wasn't until he had his growth spurt at 14yo did his talent emerge. Do people really think you can tell at 5/6 yo who will be swimmers and who won't. FFS they may give it up for something else at 8yo.

Think we should start a new camapign about letting 'kids be kids'

frab btw I have an ideal candidate for your docu. Her MIL is a head coach dontcha know. So she can tell you anything you need to know about strokes/ability etc. Yes, her MIL, her DH's DM, not even hers.

We have swimming royalty. Generations of the family have competed for the same club and have an air of entitlement about their children getting moving on and upwards. Do you think chlorine fumes affect ones perspective in the long term? Another parent has a spread sheet of PBs (personal bests) but not just his own dd, he has everyone elses on there too so he knows who the competition is. Will let you know when the documentary is going ahead .

Ask them a favour and they'll soon start avoiding you. Just had to do that with some mums from swimmingwho are very happy and boastful that they're children have got into a swimming competition, but will any of them help me out and take my DS for me? No offers so far, and they've all gone quiet and invisible. Could be the right approach to adopt.

Oh god fran NNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooo. Don't say that. My dad and brother were heavily involved when Dbro was in squad. (dad is coach but works when he choses for ASA!). Brother holds (still published) club records.

When DS started they were like 'Oh, another '.

I basically told them DS is DS and should be treated as such. The other parents are unaware my brother swam for club (and will remain so if no one connects the surnames!).

I just can't imagine ever being that way about DS even if he made squad. I think I'd more likely be complaining about the morning training and nightly training and weekends taken up by galas.

How about "I really don't care. He'll do as well as he wants to at his own time. If he wants to pack it in altogether, that's fine."

If you're brave, you could always add "I'm not one of those pushy parents you hear about who's living through their kids. I just want him to have fun."

But if you do say the last bit, can you let me know in advance, cos I'd really like to be there.

What do they learn in if not the bid pool?

big sorry

Funnily enough, I have recently had an encounter with a very pushy, competitive mum at DD2's (aged 6) swimming lesson. She sat with me for several weeks on the poolside, coming out with such gems as "Oh your DD is swimming without armbands now. Oh well they won't move her up a group until she's GOOD", and generally being very competitive, trying to find out which reading books my DD reads so she could say her DD "has read that!". The mum is also a bit scruffy and smelly, not the kind of person anyone would want to sit with really.

So now, I look for a seat on its own with none nearby, and take a book along and ignore her. I have plenty of mum friends, and really am not bothered about making any at a half hour swimming lesson

mrsK He does front crawl/ backstroke/ fly and breast stroke. The pool is 15m (ish) long and they do lengths/ and whole circuits. Its the teaching pool as in shallow (1m). Depth irrelevant though unless they want to put their feet down!

The magnificent I have been tempted to use the 'living through your kids' line.

I can't believe one simple question had bought to my attention this whole 'my child is Michael Phelps' mentality at swimming lessons.

Surely at that age (4-11 say) it should be only be about teaching them swim to stay safe?!!

Yes, if they have obvious talent and a love for it, then all well and good but from what you've said youarekidding, those parents aren't really bothered about swimming as a life skill; more about how many years it'll take them to reach olympic level .

This is just practice for the school gate status scrum - brace yourself.....

DS could swim 25 metres at aged 4 (not well but stil...) and ended up n lessons with 7 year olds which was killing the fun for him so I stopped them for a while and we will satrt agin in the summer with a quick burst.

My way to avoid other pushy parents (one of ours actually got in the pool and started teaching the children while the instructors back was turned and concentrating on one of the children ) - get in the pool and swim yourself (obviously not participating in the lessons!). Then stay and play with DS after the lesson for half and hour afterwards - its fun.

I have sympathy for you, OP! Not re swimming, as my children have had lessons and are "OK" at swimming, but sadly as a parent the competitive crap seems to be everywhere!

At ballet classes (dd was 4yo), gangs of mothers criticising the "training methods" and whispering about other ballet classes etc. The extensive critique of the yearly show was one of the reasons I took my kids out (that and the fact that I hated getting up so early on Saturday mornings!)

At school, so many parents keen to criticise the teachers and try to draw me into it, despite my smiling and shrugging and saying that we are perfectly happy, think they are lovely etc. I feel quite sad for the teachers at times- they seem to get picked to bits.

I have been caught out by seemingly "nice" mums who then go on to bitch unreservedly about the school/ teacher/ headmistress- even other 5 yos, which depresses the hell out of me. When I refuse to join in, I'm sure they eye me suspiciously as some kind of loony hippy for not being outraged about the meagre homework my 5yo gets, or for not wanting to pick apart a comment the teacher may or may not have made to a class of P1s.

I just don't get it. If I was unhappy with a teacher/ swimming teacher/ ballet teacher I would speak to the teacher or move my child elsewhere. can't see what is to be gained by getting all righteously indignant with other loonies mums. weird.

Shall I just repeat in case anyone missed it - we have entered new realms of competitive parenting "one of ours actually got in the pool and started teaching the children while the instructors back was turned"

kewcumber- did someone actually say that to you??? Holy hell- how did you keep a straight face?

they're amazing, other people's children, aren't they? I hope that child got a special award or maybe a slap

no, no-one said it - I saw one of the mothers get in the pool and start trying ot teach the children to swim during the lesson then started giving th e instructor advice!

That is mad kew Luckily the club has the whole pool complex for lessons for no parents can enter poolside. Shame could it could be a great thing to witness. I have started taking DS on a weekend to play.

vintage You've hit the nail on the head. For me this is a life skill. We live on the coast and so would like DS to be a strong swimmer. Obviouslythe better the stroke the less tired they get doing it so thats why the club was a good choice for me. (that and less crowded). IME swimming is not much different than aceademics/ dance etc. Theres those who excell young and those when older. Surely at this age we should be teaching them about effort=reward. Reward being improvement and a personal sense of acheivement not reaching the squad in 5 years time?

I think this pressures the children too much. If parents are pushing them too far and then they don't make the squad there is the chance they'll feel they've failed - both at swimming and they're parents. How do you move back from that?

I agree about the effort and sense of personal acheivement (and fun!) at 5/6 and older. If I hadn;t taken this appraoch DS wouldn;t be the swimmer he is now. He's particularly good though better than average but he was terrified of the water at 18 months and it took 18 long hard months of persisting and going every week and playing and making it "fun" until eventually he cracked! He is now truly like a fish in the water and loves nothing better than swimming along the bottom of the pool.

If he turns out to be btter than averagely good at it in the long run when the others have all caught up (and to be honest most of them will) then that will be nice for him but it was hardly the point of it all. Confident and unafraid and not so likely to drown was what I was aiming for!

he's not particulalry good!

It's alright kew I know what your saying.

Thats exactly my viewpoint. Yes DS is youngest in his group (well is equal age to the youngest there are 4 - 6yos). He is only the same standard as them so not a shining swimmer iyswim? Just seems parents look at age of child in group not actually how well they swim and that eventually they'll all catch up in stroke as they're all taught the same. The parents with the older children seem desperate for them to move up as they seem to feel embarrassed? there child is oldest. Some will get it sooner than others. IMO the younger ones pick it up easier because they are less worried about it iyswim, they just seem to enjoy doing there best and the lack of thought process seems to help not hinder.

A swimmer who 'gets' technique early will not necessarily be the fastest or strongest swimmer. That comes with age and dedication and an element of talent. Something the parents watching seem to think they can channel through a glass window.

I guess I'm opposite to some parents in that I'd rather DS spent longer in teaching pool as it gets serious when they go to big pool and I wonder if the fun will go out of it for him.

But as fran said above. Being in squad group has a status some parents need/want and its passed down through generations.

SO TONIGHT WAS SWIMMING AGAIN!

So I turn up for DS lesson and sit next to a Dad who's DS goes to the same school as DS. A mum I've not spoke to sat the other side of me. Nice chat about innane shit which was great and I was ssssssssssooooooooo glad to find someone else whos sending their child to learn a life skill.

So DS group finishes and I leave my stuff with friend as the really pushy mum (with the head coach MIL) has sat next my friend so I say I'll stay and chat to her.

She spends time trying to tell my friend how her DD should be swimming and how she should be correcting her DD's stoke. My friend ignoring her doesn't seem to give her the message. She then starts on about racing (whilst I'm off banging the vending machine as DS chocs are stuck!)

So the coach comes out and says that as all the groups are getting bigger the coach from big pool has agreed to accept some children nearly ready to create space and make groups more even. She says the names of 4 of them and then says the 5th is X - my friends DD.

Did laugh though as when coach gave names of those moving up she said to pushy mum 'DD nearly ready, I know you think she probably is but theres some things we need to tweak first'.

The pushy mum's DS then comes over and the mum says to him very loudly 'some children have been moved up tonight even though DD is far better than some of them' at the balls of some people.

It's actually become quite amusing and wish I'd had Frans hidden camera bag. People would have paid to see the meltdown by mum.