The hoi polloi

[Jux]

hoi means 'the'
polloi means 'people'

The hoi polloi means 'the the people'. It is tautological. You don't need the extra 'the'.

Sorry, but it grates on me. Yes, I do have more important things to do, but I am desperately trying to avoid doing them

No, this is not aimed at anyone in particular, either here on in RL, but I have just heard yet another person using the phrase so I thought I'd disseminate the info as widely as poss.

Hound me, I probably deserve it

I wonder if people say 'The hoi polloi' because just saying 'they're one of hoi polloi' sounds like a member of a boy band?

"And can we please open a till for FEWER than 10 items not LESS?"

They already do at Waitrose, because they is well posh innit........

Less is used when there is one of something (less butter)
Fewer is used when there are multiples of something (fewer apples).

Trillian, not sure if you're objecting to "demonstrate in a sentence......." or actually asking someone to demonstrate the use of hoi polloi in a sentence?

In case it's the latter I shall do so forthwith:

Hoi polloi were well chuffed when Man U beat Arsenal, innit.

The hoi polloi were terribly pleased when their team won against all odds.

The first one is right.

[disclaimer: I have no interest in football, and distance myself utterly from the sentiments expressed; nor can I make any claims as to the realism or otherwise of the event described]

Actually "polloi" means "many" (masculine plural; Greek is a gendered language).

if PIN number changed to PI number it would be confusing though, wouldn't it? to how many decimal places would it want you to go?

On normal disaster-free days "this train terminates here" drives me bonkers.

It was the latter, I wanted a demonstration.

I don't think I have ever seen "hoi polloi" used without "the". It looks strange to me.

Sorry, tinkertitonk. I simplified, interpreted etc., but I erred in the service of mankind

Trillion, did it help though? and how do you feel about MU losing? It were a life or death match, or whatever it is they have in football.

Or indeed about Arsenal losing........

and please start using mitigate correctly:

"to mitigate against flooding we will ... "

I'm not sure it did help, because it still looks correct to me with "the" in it.

hoi polloi
1837, from Gk. hoi polloi (pl.) "the people," lit. "the many" (pl. of polys ). Used in Gk. by Dryden (1668) and Byron (1822), in both cases preceded by the, even though Gk. hoi means "the," a mistake repeated often by subsequent writers, who at least have the excuse of ignorance of Gk.

At least I'm in good company in being wrong :)

Trillian: brilliant! Have always thought reading dictionaries was fascinating ...

I'll shut up now.

[wanders off severely chastened]

Don't go Jux! It's been a great lesson in etymology

I'm sorry I was too late to respond to your DD's invite . I was busy catching mosquitoes with the kittens. DD1 has a nasty allergic reaction to mosquito bites, so the kit's sleep with her, successfully hunt them if they appear and keep her safe through the night!

I am not one of the hoi polloi as I have a degree in Greek

The phrase in English is hoi polloi, not polloi. As Trillian says, it looks wrong without the hoi. IN the first recorded use in English it's the hoi polloi.
There are lots of other English words that incorporate a word that is a definite article in another language. Alcohol, for instance.

i am really not a word person,(do don't know why i'm on mumsnet)

the hoi polloi does sound nice though but in reality they're knob ends

They keep putting it up on the matrix signs on my way to work:
"full cars less queues". I feel it should be fewer queues or shorter queues. Am I right?

The pharmacy near MIL's has sign out saying: "were here to help". I am torn between defacing the sign and going in and saying something.

While I admire your adhesion to the original Greek op :o I think you are wrong because I think hoi polloi has been assimilated into English as a noun. Because it sounds utterly wanky without an article

They have started changing all of the cashpoints in my area (thank God!) so that, rather than requesting your "PIN Number", they simply ask you to "Enter your PIN" which is a lot less redundant.

I am now wondering about homological and heterological.

Hmmm. [that's me wondering, by the way].

FFS, yes yes we all know this about hoi polloi but you come across as a tedious wanker for pointing it out as if to suggest you are so great for knowing this very basic information.

YABU!

Ohh, homological and heterological, Jux, you have enriched us all.

Proudfoot - YABU, if you are so jolly dismissive yet apparently, oblivious to punctuation yourself.

Except proudfoot, clearly!

The river Avon. Is the river river. Doesn't bother me but does dh. For some reason.