yes... i know i am but....................

[ilovearnold]

Yes i know im being unreasonable to start another thread re middle class ness!!! But there must be a reason why it facinates!!!

So what are middle class give aways.?..what behevoiurs and views....?

I get confused as some people think middle class is re money and private education - which id term as upper middle class cf to " normal " middle class which can mean ,to me , that you are broke but have mc view and lifestyle.....such as defered ggratification etc.

Some people seem to define middle class as two holidays a year but surley you can be well off in terms of cash... but not middle class.

Am not sure it comes down to proffesional status either as quite lot of middle class type folk i know can afford not to do stressful jobs by choice and do stuff like a bit of cleaning or gardening because they choose to and enjoy it opt for a simpler life - the person with little cash ,a good quality ancient jumper - just to set the scene- but enought money to not have any worries..

I am middle class by proffesion and education- if thats how you want to mesure it... but not " well spoken"- broke due to dd and ds hobbies and huge mortgage - i cant help but find it intesting stuff!!ramble ,ramble...........

Coming from the US we have a very different view on what is "middle class". Simply, it's not poor and not rich. It's interchangeable with "working class" and "blue collar". My English wife has tried on numerous occasions to explain this to me but has so far failed.

I'll watch this with interest. :)

Don't know, but I think you can be poor and have 'class' - in other words decent values etc. You can also be be rich and vulgar and immoral and have no class . Probably not possible to record and people in the way they used to.

If we're just talking money in the bank- We are the following: upper, upper- middle, middle, proffessional, blue collar, lower. If we go by that - I am professional - Katie price is Upper - middle... Think I'll stay where I am ta.

Read 'Watching the English' by Kate Fox. Great analysis of all the subtle class differences in England, and a fun read. Eg - what does a garden gnome say about your class?

Why does it matter? Get on with your own life, enjoy it and never try to keep up with the Jones's....

Fwiw I have no class.....

Jajas - sorry about the extra f - I managed to spell it right in the next sentence. Do you think I should go down a ring on the class ladder?
OP, I think your post is interesting.

Rung - oops down again...

Do you have 5 types of vinegar in your kitchen none of which is Sarsons? Then you are middle class. Vinegar is the acid (natch) test.

BTW it matters because it's social history - everything to do with how we live our lives now.

I have a larder like Nigella's. Am I posh ( or just greedy) ?

Joric- just to pop back to say re your last comment -that s what i mean too- amongst other things-the changes and the social history....I had to write an essay once -many moons ago for gcse sociology.. which was entitled - WE ARE ALL MIDDLE CLASS NOW - DISCUSS. Basic sociological stuff re parents occupations,education and why class sytem perpetuates in british society.

K99 I dont mind what class im in -well i might just a bit !!!ha ha- i just find the subject intresting.Eg historicaly why Usa ,as in earlier post on this thread,doesnt seem to have a complexity re class and catagorises via occupation, whereas in Britian some of the ancient class systems thrive within a changing society..

Class has very little to do with money, IMO. You can buy a "middle class lifestyle" but you'd only be be buying the "style" bit, not the "substance". I think.

Jilly Cooper's Class, although a little old fashioned, explains it very well.

Thanks Belle Dame... I understand that you can buy the lifestyle and i agree that people can emulate values via money or express values via money such as concious choices such as green purchases, via money, or try to buy a lifestyle when they dont really believe in it but is for external reasons - amongst all that.... Im looking to define that Substance .....

Its Ok Jajas!! hope hangover goes soon......

I find it very confusing when educational markers (such as a degree or a professional job) or money get mixed up with moral values, such as deferred gratification. As far as I can tell, my dirt poor working class ancestors knew a whole lot more about deferred gratification than most academics I know today- they had to because only seriously disciplined people in their circumstances managed to keep their families alive. My greatgrandmother brought every single one of her 11 children through childhood and into adulthood in a country and age where people still starved to death and where childhood mortality was rife: I don't suppose there is a lot any modern MC banker could have taught her about deferred gratification.

well of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ha ha - id aspire to that but have to have aldi wine at mo due to other commitments but hey ho.Love champers - hope it went down a treat !!

The thing that always tickles me is the similarities between Bottom Class and Top Class. Neither puts on airs & graces, both use old-fashioned (and correct) words; are very -umm, earthy; both understand horses and there are lots of other similarities which I shan't list for fear of being called classist! The bourgeois middle classes would have done better to aspire downwards, they might have ended up posher

Curlyboy, has your wife introduced you to Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced "Bouquet") yet?

Cory - i understand what you are saying...
.Im trying to explore if people have views re class as is defined by educational measures as you say OR by values or attitudes or combo of things!!.I dont think its to do with money personally.This is why its so facinating, I think its so odd and intresting, and specific to certian coutries and their history.

anyone else..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................?

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It's your relationship to the means of production.

Isn't middle class to do with socio, cultural and/or economic factors. You don't have to have money to be middle class