to wish people would use services appropriately?

[mree]

I've been reading a topic on another forum about ongoing health worries someone's having. She doesn't seem to be being taken seriously by her GP and is becoming increasingly frustrated, quite understandably. Her condition isn't immediately life-threatening (ie., she's not bleeding, she's not burnt, her ability to breathe is not restricted, her circulation is not affected, there's no suggestion of an abnormal pulse, etc.), and is not acutely painful. Several posters on this forum have advised her to dump herself in A&E and refuse to move until they perform a diagnostic test usually done as an outpatient. This test is, in fact, not usually available in an emergency department and, when it is, is used to diagnose such conditions as a leaking aneurysm.

AIBU to jump up and down in frustration at the total lack of understanding from large portions of the general public as to what constitutes an emergency?!! These people are the reason those who attend A&E with appropriate problems have to wait so bloody long!!!

Obviously just some idealistic emergency physician senior who hasn't had the joy of 3am in a busy department, with one actual sick person out of 30 waiting, who you can't get to see because the sister in charge is more concerned with the 21 year old with one episode of vomiting who called 999 'breaching'..

Or doesn't realise how disillusioned the juniors are by only ever being left with the heart-sink patients after all the interesting cases are creamed off by the seniors, and all the black and white minor injury stuff has been taken by the ENPs..

And don't get me started on the whole 'my kid's had a temperature for 45 minutes, and no I haven't tried anything, and it's my right to be seen NOW or I'll start shouting' brigade..

Honestly, come to the Emergency Department with your non-emergencies.. We love it.

Lol, how I wish I could accept PacificDogwood, I'm pregnant so that wee icon is as close as I'm getting to a glass of wine until about Christmas unfortunately! I've counted to 10 and calmed down, I hate it when people deliberately misunderstand me, especially as I adore my job and simply want to have the time and resources to do it properly. And the 'I trained in 1842 when we were PROPER nurses, not like these flighty young bedpan dodgers nowadays' brigade really piss me off. I work bloody hard, I give the best care possible, and my patients appreciate me. I have pile of thank you cards, and not one complaint to my name. Now I'm going to go and count to 10 again, and go to bed, as I've got be up at stupid o'clock for work. You know, ticking boxes. It's very tiring.

So what do you suggest? Her own GP isn't taking her seriously...so she should what?

I am not an idealistic senior, neither am I a nurse. I was responding to the intimation that if it isn't immediately life threatening then ED isn't the place for it. Which isn't an attitude I would want any of my juniors to have.

How are people to know the condition they are concerned about isn't life / limb threatening without having the medical knowledge that you have to apply to their case? You are expecting people who are worried about a serious problem to apply logic and knowledge they may not have when under stress - people who do that are few and far between.

If the patients who are attending inappropriately are seen within a triage system and sent on their way then I fail to see how this is impacting on your work or causing you problems?

For what it's worth I was not trying to imply that you were not there for your patients, nor was I commenting on your standards of care. Both are outwith my knowledge and remit.

I disagree with your opinion, that's all. Or does everyone have to agree with everyone these days?

Whyohwhy - those seniors you dismiss were juniors once. We worked just as hard, just as long, for just as little recognition. I am not saying we had it harder, I am not saying you have it easier. We have all been through it.

I nearly died because my GP and the outpatient department that iwas attending wouldn't perform a lung scan. I presented myself to A+E, were i was addmitted because test were done. I was told for two nights that if my stats fell any lower they would lose me, it was pure luck and the fact that i had always kept myself healthy that i lived so. Not everyone has a good GP and tbh the complaints procedure against GP's isn't that good.

I could tell you tails of my DH's treatment but it would be book length, he wasn't diagnosed with cancer ubtil 6 weeks before his death and it was right through his body (he had been fobbed off for 5 years by GP's).

I work partly with health and mine and my DH stories are not that rare, unfortunately.

Only time I've ever used it when not told to by a health professional was when mum attended her GP surgery with the side of her face inflating and the GP told her he didn't know how to sort it with no suggestion on what to do about it.

Turns out it was a stone in the salivary gland, very painful. ED referred to maxillo facial.

This has already been said but I'm going to say it again and louder.

OP I find your post extremely insensitive, rude and unneccessary particularly from a HCP. You should know better. To me this is the worst 'thread about a thread' I've seen.

You seem to have little knowledge or understanding of mental health problems which is (all too often) the case in A&E, IME. People with mental health problems have just as much right to a service as anyone else.

Whilst you haven't breached confidentiality because you don't know this distressed woman professionally, you are doing her and yourself yourself a great diservice.

I will be reporting this thread to MNHQ to ask for it to be deleted.

Yes I agree OP. My dad worked in A and E as a Dr for years and the stories he came back with!!
I think people are too ready to call emergency now. I have only ever been in with my daughter when she was having severe allergic reactions and breathing difficulties - My husband would be on his death bed before he went in!
On the other hand I do think GP's should spend a bit more time with their patients explaing prehaps because the trust has gone from the relationship.
It would save the NHS a lot of time and money if GP's spent another 5-10 minutes examining their patients properly and giving clearer answers.

I would like research done on how much is spent on people having to be admitted to hospital (in my case 4 months) when if a simple indepth investigation and an x-ray had of been ordered earlier by my GP, it would have been avoided. From my last post i can think of at least nine people that have had similar happen, perhaps if a good percentage of A+E's had not have closed then we wouldn't be in this situation of having to have a limb hanging off before some staff thought that we had a right to be there.

Bad morning cahms?

No. I'm fine, thanks. And you?

I'm not the only person who has complained about this thread.

Given that some of us who have posted on this thread have no idea that it may or may not be referring to another thread, and haven't read any such thread, under what grounds should it be deleted uselesscamhs?

I give up. I'm being totally misunderstood, and trying to explain myself seems to make it worse. I've never mentioned mental health, I don't think A&E is JUST for life threatening emergencies, I'm not discussing anyone in particular, and I'm certainly not discussing anyone I've ever met or (as far as I know) anyone from MN. I wondered if I was BU, and wanted a discussion based on people's experiences, opinions and points of view. I love my job, I love helping people, I just get frustrated sometimes. I won't be posting on this thread, or any MN thread, again. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but please remember you don't know me, and certain posters who've gotten rather cross, I promise you've misunderstood me.

Mree, I understand where you are coming from. I know its very frustrating when people misunderstand and even twist your words. It has happened to me a few times. Have even been called a troll by people I don't know or have ever met. If people want discussion - discuss.

I agree with you OP that if we all want the NHS to run efficiently we have to use it appropriately. this requires cooperation from staff and patients. Going to A&E costs a lot more than seeing your GP and obviously if people who shouldn't be there are getting in the way of real emergencies that is clearly wrong.

If a GP is crap, get another one. On an individual level it is frustrating when you don't get the help you require but from a perspective of the society and using resources wisely other actions might be better.

The NHS is under real threat right now. We need to do our bit too.

Uselesscahms, what exactly are you going on about?

Who said people with MH issues shouldn't go to A&E if they need to?

I think part of it is just down to common sense which fewer people seem to have nowdays!
I havent worked for the NHS, most of my family have and I know how bloody hard they all work and what they have to face including abuse from patients.
There is also something called NHS direct which offers good advice if you are unsure who to go to if it's out of hours.
The only thing I would recommend is that the NHS does get Dr's and nurses who can understand and speak English to a certain level!

I agree with OP to be honest. Had to go to AandE once for DO as he'd dropped his last vial of insulin at four thirty on a Sunday. We were very shame faced but didn't know what else to do! The staff were very understanding and helped is out, but I think they appreciated our humility!

It must be very frustrating for them.

Why are people asking for this to be deleted? I think the OP has a valid point. I always use NHS Direct when unsure as to whether a accident/illness requires a visit to A & E and always found the advice spot on

Probably because they don't like the truth annoying. It certainly is a valid point. I get the picture that the thread may possibly be in relation to another but I don't see a problem with that. OP has not mentioned anyone specific in the post, nor has she spoken about a one off experience. This sort of thing happens day in,day out and I agree, it needs to be addressed.

Well, I have no idea what other thread this one might be inspired by. Really is beside the point IMO.

The OP was venting a frustration that lots of HCP working at the coal face feel from time to time.

Nobody is talking about people who are genuinely worried about something, even if it does turn out to not be anything serious/dangerous.
There are people out there who take the piss. And they know they are taking the piss.
The hospital I used to work in was relocated from the town centre to about 1/2 mile outside town.
Attendances on a Saturday night fell by 30% - and this fall has been sustained 8 years later.

And as far as I am aware the general health of that population is no better or worse now than it was 8 years ago.

And btw my example re sprained thumb-3 weeks ago-3am 999 ambulance was not an exaggeration...

Nobody denies that there are incompetent HCP out there - there are. And IMO attending A+E when felling 'fobbed off' and worried is as good a reason as any. Whether it is for a physical or MH complaint is truly irrelevant.

I agree that A&E should mean just that. But a friend's husband had been ill for over 12 months, nothing life threatening (or so we thought) but not well He saw his GP at lest weekly and had antibiotics, changes to his diet recommended, "tonics", you name it he had it.

One weekend, his wife had had enough of it, - so off they went to A&E, explained the tale and left him there, with no keys, phone or money and saying she'd be back later.

Within 6 hours his lymphoma was diagnosed - but too late and he died a few weeks later, leaving 2 DCs, one under 1 year old.

At least they tool him seriously at A&E.

Yes A&E is a 40 mile round trip; we rarely go on a whim

YANBU.

Maybe I'm being naive as I have only ever attended fairly large surgeries, but if the GP you see doesn't take you seriously wouldn't you just make another appointment with someone else and then clearly state your reasons for seeing someone else in the appointment? And are walk-in centres not everywhere? I guess for more rural areas this wouldn't be an option, all the more reason to be insistent with your GP?