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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking that I may never be allowed to retire.........

280 replies

whymumwhymum · 17/06/2011 21:43

Have worked in public sector for nearly 20 years now and just saw in the news today that they are planning on keeping the pensions for my age group and under back until we are 66 ffs.

That was not what I signed up for when I decided to pay into the scheme!

Thats nearly another 30 years and tbh I don't think i'll survive in this job that long, and thats not taking into account that by the time I'm 50 or older they will probably have pushed the age back further.

I don't feel particularly ' lucky' to be a public sector worker, i worked and studied damn hard for years to get my now reasonably (not by any means highly) paid job. I will never ever get a bonus even if i do twice the 'reasonable' work, will also never get overtime payments. I'll never have a company car or private health care or any other perks.

Many's the night I've lain awake worrying about the people i get paid to look after Sad.

The pension was the one thing that made it 'wothwhile' long term and i am losing faith that I will ever see it, in payments alone i calculat I will have paid in somehwre in the region of 100k over a working life of 45 years not accounting for inplation. Should have just saved the money or better still blown it on stuff I could actually enjoy before i'm six feet under!

OP posts:
MrsKravitz · 18/06/2011 09:34

This is why I moved over to teaching in a university. My profession is a young person's game and it would just be bloody silly to be doing it in my 60's.

ASByatt · 18/06/2011 09:45

I thought that the salary comparison figures were skewed anyway, and if you compare by level of qualification the figures are different? - That is, compare public/private salaries of people with degrees plus post-grad qualifications (eg teachers) and the private sector are paid more? - I can't give a reference because I heard that on the radio a few months ago and can't remember where it came from, sorry.

MrsKravitz · 18/06/2011 09:48

Does anyone want me hobbling in to teach their children in university in 20 years time (for enormous fees)?

trixymalixy · 18/06/2011 09:53

But what about cleaners, brickies etc. Are they any more able to do their jobs in their late sixties? Why should they be paying for teachers to retire earlier than them?

sausagesandmarmelade · 18/06/2011 09:53

Hang on MrsK....are you really saying that being a university lecturer is a 'young person's game'?

There are plenty of older university lecturers...and I understand that their jobs are being seriously threatened right now.

It's not the sort of job I'd go into right now...
In my BILs place of work I think he said that 1 in 3 were losing their jobs...

TheBride · 18/06/2011 10:01

The fact is people are living longer so we are ALL going to have to work longer.

Or die earlier. Logan's Run anyone?

Maybe we should just all agree to be put down at 70. Then we could all retire at 60. I don't think that's a bad compromise actually.

Riveninside · 18/06/2011 10:03

When Carers turn 65 they lose the paltry Carers Allowance, despite many still caring for adult disabled children. Many will have Cared for 30 or 40 years. Thats a bit shit CA stops.

mdowdall · 18/06/2011 10:05

No MrsKravitz I would hate to think of you having to work when you are older. I would much rather be paying far higher taxes to fund your retirement.

Goblinchild · 18/06/2011 10:17

'Maybe we should just all agree to be put down at 70. Then we could all retire at 60. I don't think that's a bad compromise actually.'

Excellent suggestion. You could make people buy exemptions, and only grant them on a yearly basis as long as the old dears were self-supporting. Rather like being a milk cow.

sausagesandmarmelade · 18/06/2011 10:26

sausagesandmarmelade - WHO AND WHAT IS GOING TO PAY FOR PEOPLE TO RETIRE AT 60?

mdowdall said the above in a previous post (in somewhat shrill tone) :)

But then says she would happily pay higher taxes so that MrsKravitz (a public worker) can retire at 60!

No MrsKravitz I would hate to think of you having to work when you are older. I would much rather be paying far higher taxes to fund your retirement.

Bit of an about turn...BUT seems you answered your own question mdowdall....HURRAH!!!

thefirstMrsDeVere · 18/06/2011 10:33

So you know all those people who didnt get pensions etc before granny and grandad?

Did they also pay in all their lives in expectation that they would? Was a rather large chunk of their pay taken to fund their old age and that of others?

Nope. They were left to sink or swim according to what life had dealt them. This was far from ideal but at least the money was taken off them with the promise that they would be looked after.

It was shit but it was honest.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 18/06/2011 10:36

All this talk of public sector pensions confuses me a bit.

It doesnt actually apply to everyone in the public sector you know.

Far, far, far from it.

SlackSally · 18/06/2011 10:57

I personally have no problem in being asked to work until I'm older. As others have said, pensions were never designed to support workers for 20-30+ years. As I'm only 24, it's likely to be olde than 68 by the time I get there as well.

I'm not sure I could do my current job at that age (teacher), but I'd be happy and willing to work in some form, I am sure.

What I DO object to, is being told to work for longer (fine), make massively higher contributions, AND get significantly less out per year in the end. All in a pension scheme that is by all accounts self-funding.

One, or even two, of the three I could accept, but all three just seems a piss-take.

trixymalixy · 18/06/2011 11:01

Oh for crying out loud. It is not self funding!!!!

Just where exactly do you think the money comes from?!?!?!?

mdowdall · 18/06/2011 11:13

trixymalixy - you are wasting your breath. There are people here who are either just naive or are deliberately misunderstanding your argument because to do so would be stare the truth in the face - namely, that they want everybody else to put their hand in their pockets to pay for their pensions.

SlackSally · 18/06/2011 11:14

Calm down, trixymalixy.

Obviously I realise that wealth is created by the private sector.

I just meant that the government are not having to put in extra above their agreed employer contributions.

Care to address the other parts of my post?

Do you think this triple whammy is justifiable?

mdowdall · 18/06/2011 11:19

SlackSally - I am happy to try answer your post but I am confused. In public sector case, the Government IS the employer? Am I missing something?

TheBride · 18/06/2011 11:23

I think the point is that the government cant afford to keep making those contributions at the current level.

What's the current ratio of employee vs employer contributions on teacher pensions btw?

Private sector is usually 50/50 AFAIK (i.e employer pays £1 for every £1 the employee pays)

ShellyBoobs · 18/06/2011 11:28

"...All in a pension scheme that is by all accounts self-funding."

Fucking hell, are you being serious? Shock

Estimates from various reviews and enquiries into spiralling public sector pension costs have put the liability at anything from 30 to 50% on top of the salary paid.

SlackSally · 18/06/2011 11:28

Yes, mdowdall, that's why I said 'the government are not having to put in extra above their agreed employer contributions.

As I said, I realise things have to change. I'm a little resentful that the current situation was allowed to go on for so long. Pretty much two generations have had this unsustainable pension arrangement that will affect far more generations to come.

My objection is to the number of ways they are changing the pension:
-pension age
-increased contributions (increased by 50%)
-career average rather than final salary
-link to RPI rather than CPI (or the other way around - to whichever is lower)

SlackSally · 18/06/2011 11:29

Shellyboobs, I was referring specifically to the teachers' pension.

Quite willing to be wrong, of course.

lesley33 · 18/06/2011 11:34

Obviously the pensions issue is a problem for the private and public sector. But this thread is about public sector pensions.

I am 46 but I have quite a few older friends. By 60 there is often a massive difference between people's work capabilities.Some people struggle to make it to 60 in terms of work.

So a friend who has had 2 heart attacks and is a cleaner retires in 3 months time. To be frank she isn't up to her job at the moment, but as she only gets SSP she can't afford to be off ill. She huffs and puffs carrying out any cleaning.

Another friend who is 62 is very fit and well and has no problem doing her full time job.

Generally speaking, poorer people have a lower life expectancy and are more likely to have chronic health problems in old age, at a younger age than their better off colleagues.

Chronic ill health in old age can be due to lifestyle, genetic problems, work hazards - the % of people dying from asbestos related illnesses is very high,or just bad luck. Many of these people will not be well enough to work until an increased retirement age.

PumpkinBones · 18/06/2011 11:36

Everyone complaining should try working for a charity. We have an ethical pension. I shall be working til I drop. I've made my peace with it Grin

lesley33 · 18/06/2011 11:37

There is not 1 public sectror pension scheme. Some are in deficit some are not. Many of those that are in deficit are so because the employer took an employers contribution holiday during the boom years. I don't know of 1 single pension scheme in trouble where the employer continued to pay into the public sector pension scheme during the boom.

The public sector pension problem is far more a result of mismanagement of those pension schemes during the boom times.

lesley33 · 18/06/2011 11:39

Pumpkin - I now work for a charity. We don't have any pension scheme. But I honestly don't mind that as I knew that before I took the job.

I think it is changes to existing schemes that mean people get much less than they were told they would get, that is the problem.