to limit estate agent viewing to specific times?

[anice]

because DH thinks I am unreasonable, the landlord says I am not (but DH says that he is only saying that) and the estate agents think its outrageous! So, which is it?

We are moving out of rented house. There is no written contract - just the unwritten rolling one month one that came along after the written one expired last year. The written contract said give two month's notice, the law says we only have to give one month but we gave two anyway as gesture of goodwill to the landlord.

However I have asked the landlord if viewings could be limited to set times each week (3 X 1 hour slots - a mid-morning, an mid-afternoon and a Saturday lunchtime slot).

The landlord is saying ok, DH is saying that what I have suggested is unreasonable and this morning I got a call from an estate agent demanding access tomorrow and not accepting "its inconvenient" as a reason for refusal. He wanted to know exactly what I will be doing at that time that makes it inconvenient (although he felt I was asking too much personal detail of him when I asked for his surname!).

So, whose side would you be on?

Well there's another option, you do what the departing tenants did on one property we viewed to buy. the EA did show us round, but it was the saturday before they moved out and they were packing and didn't give a stuff that they should 'present the house'. I asked them what they thought of the house, the woman of the couple stood there while the EA made a great fish impression and told me all the faults they had reported to the LL that hadn't been fixed, she told me all about the times the lorries went past on their way to tescos, she told me all about the parking issues as the neighbours had 4 cars but only parking for 2 so blocked the road....

By the time she finished, DH had mentally knocked £20k of our offer price. I'd decided that a)I liked her a lot b) her landlord was so stupid not to wait another week to put the place on the market, and c) I'd rather live somewhere else. (We didn't buy the house)

FakePlasticTrees - i have considered it. Maybe just pull the furniture out that is hiding the damp and leave the viewers to make their own conclusions. On the other hand, I want to stay on good terms with the landlord, if only to maintain the tiniest hope that I will get my deposit back

HerHissyness - in everyone else's eyes it might stop being OPs home, but not in hers and not in the eyes of the law.

Oh too true, too true! I agree entirely. But 3x1h slots is unreasonable.

anice, how long have you lived there, is your deposit in a scheme? The LL has to really have rock solid evidence to withhold any of your deposit.

Your only duty is to return the property in the condition you took it over in, with latitude for fair wear and tear.

sounds rubbish anice, my situation is nowhere near as complicated as yours and it's still stressful, so you have my symapthies, and from what i understand from reading this thread, you are within your rights to restrict viewing times, or not even allow viewings at all, so therefore if it's what you feel necessary to make your life manageable then do it

oh and your deposit is protected, they can't retain any of it without (fairly good) reason

two years. what he does is claim that the tenant has broken something, ruined a carpet etc. The tenant is faced with either a 6 month dispute process and then they will probably get their deposit back or they pay the landlord off by giving him more than he is due but he lets them release their deposit.
The previous tenants (who I now know) showed me that he claimed for a carpet for which they had evidence (accepted at the tribunal) that he'd claimed for the same damage from the tenants before them.

So its more about the (several thousand pounds) deposit being held hostage or giving the landlord a % of it so he'll release it

Don't know whether you're aware but if there is a dispute only the disputed part of the deposit should be kept. E.g. If the deposit is 1000 and the landlord thinks 500 should be kept then the other 500 should be returned without waiting for any dispute procedures to take place.

Do you have a good inventory? Ideally with photos? Who did the inventory? was it the LL or did he get a clerk to do it?

Good you know the previous tenants... that'll help if he starts trying it on.

tyler80's right, disputes don't work like that, you only dispute the amount you disagree, the rest is returned to you. So say your deposit is £1000 and the LL is charging you £200 for whatever, you can go to tribunal for the £200, but the £800 is returned to you. I took my LL to TDS tribunal in May, the money was back in my account at the end of July.

Don't let him do this to you, ideally clean the house professionally with receipts, get the oven, carpets and windows cleaned. If you've been there 2 years, fair wear and tear comes into it, and a good independent inventory clerk will factor that in.

i didn't know that about the only the disputed part being kept. The previous tenant told me all their deposit was kept for six months. that is GOOD news (and I need some for a change!)

The inventory was done by a clerk but its not really good. It says things like ornaments in the garden are in good condition but actually the main one is rotting and on its last legs - and clearly has been for several years. unfortunately we weren't present when the inventory was done but in any case I would not have been as picky as I now understand I needed to be.
There are other things like a chip in the kitchen floor tiles, which just sort of appeared after a few months of living here. I though we must have done it, but the ex-tenant was here one day and casually pointed at it and said that it was one of the things that the landlord had tried to charge her for. So it must have been covered up somehow and then the covering got cleaned off when I was washign the floor.

I think the terms of your original contract still cover you even if the term has expired as long as you have not signed a new one - most have a clause about making the property available for viewers once notice has been given. It might be an idea to check.

lalalonglegs - it does but it has expired. The new contract is the default one you get by law when there is not a signed one. It is called a Periodic Assured Shorthold Tenancy and although nothing is signed, by law both parties are deemed to be bound by it as I kept on paying rent and the landlord kept on accepting it. At least that's the advice I got from CAB.

One other thing though is that i have heard that there are some rights you cannot sign away. Its a sort of protection for the little man who can be forced to sign an unfair contract and it can apply to anything. Mainly what you cannot sign away are your human rights - and included amongst those is the " right to enjoy your property peacefully".
I don't know for sure if this is correct or not, its just what i heard but I haven't seen any proof of it and it is regularly ignored by landlords and letting agents

anice is right
went through this with my landlord last year (only he'd given us notice since EA had told him he'd get more for it he ended up with a 3 month void 2 months of builders and tenants who only lasted 6 months)
you can not sign away your right to quiet enjoyment ie you don't have to show anyone round (or let EA in to do so)
shelter were very helpful you can call them if you want freephone!

and whoever said it is right if you can't afford the void you can't afford to be a landlord too many amateurs and why should tenants be concerned with landlords profits it's that that's keeping many people out of a home!!!

and if they keep any deposit contest it (did I ever tell you about the time my ll retained 79p) and lol at hissys ll even trying did he know what you do for a living?

this is what I like MN for... I was feeling very insecure and now I feel much more confident. I will consider a regular evening viewing, but I want something in return for it: a to whom it may concern type landlord's reference.

Unfair of me to ask anyone?

oh BTW I'm not a lawyer so do call shelter if you would feel more comfortable they were a bit wishy washy at first ie why wouldn't you let them come in? but I explained all the hassle and they then said no you absolutely don't have to.

we did let them come initially said had to be before bedtime first they bought round 2 groups one came back about 2 hrs later with boyfriend and asked to look round again kids in bed we said sorry, other woman came with kids (young) took them out of pushchair downstairs and walked off leaving me to mind them then proceeded to open every single cupboard and drawer and rifle through she didn't stop even when I walked after her and said that is my furniture (house was unfurnished)

second time they made appt for eg 6pm turned up 45 mins late funnily enough EA also turned up 45 mins late we'd decided they weren't coming by then kids were in bath

after that they didn't come again!!
house was shit despite all the builders
next tenants lasted 6 months to the day and left them with a void over Christmas

EA threatened not to write us a reference so I just laughed (can write it myself FWIW)

so I'd definately get reference off them now or tell new owners you've sold own property

alternatively you could just follow agent around innocently pointing out all the faults 'sorry it's so damp in here we just can't get this room dry'
'sorry it's so cold in here the window frame is rotten and we can't get this window shut'

you get the picture

I am not planning to get into a conversation about my rights with the landlord or the letting agent as I think that would just be inflammatory. I have written an email though asking for a To Whom it May Concern reference. If he delays or doesn't answer, then I'll just put the viewings on hold until we get everything sorted out between us. It is up to him.

HerHissyness - could you tell me what it means to be responsible for a mature garden with a large wooded area? I imagine it would include cutting the grass and weeding the beds, but its not pruning the trees or even any bushes which are over 8 feet high? Or is it?

You are not being unreasonable and you are not being an arse! It does not matter if you only offered 1 hour on a Saturday afternoon, you are well within your rights to say no viewings whatsoever. It may well be inflexable to have 3 x 1 hr slots but that is still a darn sight more than other landlords get.

Estate Agents will push their luck on viewings as they are trying to get the sale, but they know the law (or should), and should think they are lucky to get any time at all.

anice - when I last gave notice to move out of rented property the EA did give me 24 hours notice for viewings. I didn't mind at all. Mostly I was at work anyway and if I wasn't I just let the ea get on with the tour. I thought that was what everybody did; gave notice, realised they were moving out and allowed viewings. Just seems very simple to me, can't understand why you would stress yourself out over it. It's not pleasant but the whole business of moving house isn't either.
Are you sure you aren't just stressing yourself out over a rather trivial thing because you don't actually want to leave the house?

I admit that I am not looking forward to the move but it has to be done. If I am stressing out for any reason, then its having to deal with estate agents. I hate it!

I've got a particular loathing for young male estate agents under 25 years of age. I don't feel the same way about young men in other industries: just estate agents.

anice - I would think that making sure the grass is cut and tidy, the borders free of weeds, and hedges that are at a reasonable height trimmed.

It goes down to how was it when you moved in.

Would it help if the Agent was OVER 25

Is your LL re-renting or selling the property?

it would help if the agents were more mature - less pushy, more mature!

he is re-letting

when i moved in the garden was tidy but there were two dead trees in the woods at the back. they are still dead but one of them fell over last winter. Otherwise all the shrubbery is the same except maybe a bit higher. they always were enormous and they still are. TBH the garden needs a tree surgeon for a few days to bring it under control but its not two years growth that needs to be cut back.

Now, I think, would be the wrong time to prune trees anyway.

agree anice we didn't get into a convo re rights responsibilities either, although said 21 year old dork EA did persistantly tell us that we had to allow viewings at any time to suit we just ignored

I also didn't get into any kind of convo with the other EA who was seen by my friend letting himself into the flat to do a viewing with no notice whatsoever however of course that backfired since I hadn't tidied up!!
(flat was being let to single girls so I used to move pushchair out and do the dishes etc)