to want to avoid this woman...

[lucylookout]

Sorry in advance for this being a long one, but would like to know whether IABU or not.

Last year I had a termination at 20 weeks due to a lethal condition. Around three weeks later I had a play date with a woman I had met through NCT and her son, both 2 1/2. Half way through the play date she said, almost aggressively 'look, I feel really awkward about this but I'm pregnant, OK'. She said it in such a way that I felt guilty about my termination because it made her feel awkward about being pregnant . I started apologising to her and it was only after that I felt manipulated and thought actually, she's only 7 weeks, there's no reason why she had to make her announcement to me right now.

Then, I felt like she started hounding me a bit. Our sons seemed to get on and we had a few play dates but to be honest, her son was always pretty horrible to my son (as in picking up a large plastic and metal toy, holding it over his head and hurling it at my DS). She never intervened enough for my liking (another time we were in a park and her son started attacking an older boy, maybe 5 or 6. I looked at her expectantly to do something and she said 'oh no, I like to leave it to them to sort their own battles out, and that boys old enough to defend himself ). Anyway, I stopped having the play dates.

Then, she enrolled her son at the same nursery as mine (because mine went there). They have an odd relationship where they are friends, but her DS is always very aggressive towards mine. At one point my DS was coming home with a different injury every day, including a bite on his belly that was bruised and had broken the skin. She talked to me about her son's aggression one time and said she believed it was because he was 'an alpha male finding his way in society'.

So she kept asking to meet up for play dates and I really didn't want to, but felt guilty for refusing all the time and thought to myself 'she can't be that bad' and went for a coffee when the boys were in nursery (I could avoid her aggressive DS that way). By now her second ds has been born, a cutie. She asked me with a flick of her hand 'so, uh, how's your pregnancy thing going?' I said 'uh, well, I'm not, but I'm fine about it' and she said 'well, for people who are trying to conceive, I always say, just relax, but it's probably easy for me to say that because I conceive very easily and have straightforward pregnancies' She said more things along these lines too, but I won't bore you with them now.

After that I said 'never again' to myself and have avoided her at all costs. Except this afternoon I saw her at a mutual friend's son's bday party. I have an almost physical reaction when I see her. I feel shaky and emotional and want to cry and want to slap her all at the same time. Obviously, I must be projecting some of my feelings about the termination and the crap time I was having onto her because she always made me feel worse whenever I saw her around then, but come on, I'm not being that unreasonable to want to avoid her am I? She is also a self obsessed, insensitive cow.

Sorry, rant over. I don't blame you if you didn't get to the end of this!

You've been better than most people would be under that kind of provocation - I'm so sorry to hear about the termination and what exactly does being relaxed have to do with what happened to you exactly?

But I think you say to her, next time you see her 'I am moving him away from this nursery because your son is attacking him and I don't feel the nursery staff are addressing this properly'. It is, after al, the truth. If she has even one single brain cell, this should sort all your problems out. And, clearly, then don't tell her where, and ask the nursery not to tell her either.

What a difficult situation. Don't whatever you do tell her what one you are going to. Really back off from her honestly just smile and say you have to be off now. It won't take long before she gets the message and move on to some other poor person.

Some people are just toxic.

I'd be intregued as to what the nursery said about the bite and broken skin though

In my sons nursery there are 2 rooms per age group.

Is there a way you can specify to new nursery that you want your son kept away from this boy? Perfectly reasonable IMO.

I would avoid her like the plague; if you do happen to bump into her, don't tell her where your DS is going to nursery or any other information, just be very off with her. Could you perhaps tell her you're withdrawing your child from the current nursery and putting him in X nursery, then she will do the same, and you could leave your son where he is?

Be assured that once her son starts school he will meet lots more "alpha males", some of whom might give him a swift hard punch if he starts being aggressive with them...

Avoid, smile and wave. It's fine to avoid awful people. Just be very vague re nursery.

Yanbu. There is no excuse for such crass insensitivity. And her 'alpha male' son will not thank her for not giving him social boundaries.

Sorry about yr pregnancy loss :(
She is a toxic bitch. Next time she says anything about meeting up simply say no thanks,I'd rather not. She can think WTF she likes.
If her ds attacks yr son enough to break the skin then inform the nursery that is not good enough,are they not supervising this little ape??
If she pins you down to a reason for any of it,I would say life is too short to spend time with people you don't like!
She is lucky she hasn't met any mothers who have ds who have smacked her ds back,just a matter of time,then no doubt she will bf rethinking the letting them sort it out for themselves.
Be brave,be assertive! You will feel extremely empowered!!

Thank you so much for all your support. The thing is, I told her what nursery ds is going to go to. I'm stupid and I'm kicking myself. She asked me yesterday, and I told her, thinking it's closer to me than her, and there are lots of others closer to her, but then she started quizzing me about it and I thought 'oh shit'. I'm not a particularly confrontational person anyway so the thought of telling her how I feel terrifies me to be honest, also I don't want to be too inflammatory in what I say as we have a few mutual friends (although at least one of whom feels the same as me). But now I'm torn between being preemptive and telling her I'm taking ds out of nursery because of her ds, and if she sends her ds to the new nursery I'll be taking my son out, or asking the nursery to let me know if she looks around for above reasons, to bloody going to hypnotherapy or something to help me zone her out better. I'm a distracted wreck days before and after seeing her!
icelollycraving you're right about being brave and assertive. At the moment I feel out of control and it feels rubbish and has to change.
Oh and re the current nursery, they told me he'd been bitten, but glossed over and said it was wrestling gone too excited. I had a look when I got home, was shocked, and next time I took him in told them I wasn't happy with it. Nursery has their excuses but it does boil down to them not doing enough to ensure my ds and others don't get hurt.
googoomuck the new nursery is v small, one of the reasons I like it, so it would be hard to keep them apart if they both went.

She is a total bully and you dont deserve it at all. She is taking advantage of your kind nature .
"Who needs enemies when you have friends like that ", as they say.
She is a horrid nasty person and i would cut her off and tell her directly that you have had enough of her unkind rudeness and dont wish to see her again.
So sorry to hear about your pregnancy and I hope things turn out the way you want in the future. All the best. Good luck xx

Don't let that bloody bitch rule how you feel,god I feel incensed on your behalf (that doesn't happen often!).
Tell her that you have spoken to the current nursery about yr sons playing together & that it is unacceptable & that you have contacted the new one about it too. If any mutual friends think she is ok then they would be a good loss too!

I think you need to be blunt with her. Tell her that you do not want your son in the same nursery as hers and you will just keep moving him. She may get arsey but you don't really have to see her again. Stick to your guns

Or lie and tell her you have changed your mind and you are sending him somewhere else.

Sorry to hear about this nightmare situation. When you were told by the nursery about the biting they must of told the brats mum about it to. I don't think it will come as a suprise to her that her son is the reason for the change of nursery, if you tell her he is leaving because of bullying you dont need to mention any names, I'm sure she will work it out though.. I know how you feel about not getting into an arguement with her but at the end of the day you have to think of your DS safety. It should not be long before the nursery will be having a serious talk to this woman about her brat if he is hurting your DS he is probably doing the same to others. Parents like this can only turn a blind eye for so long before they realise their problems are just begining. Do the best you can for your family ignore this woman as much as possible and good luck in the new nursery.

Like BrokenBanana said, you either need to be blunt with her, or lie. I know it's difficult if you're not naturally someone that speaks their mind, but in the interests of protecting your son I think you need to steel yourself and go for it and tell her what the problem is.

You poor thing she sounds a nightmare! I have issues at the minute with someone I'm at uni with. Shes not a bully but she is a self obsessed snob totally lacking in empathy and every word out of her mouth used to grate.

I was in counselling at the time when she really made my teeth itch so could discuss her and try and resolve it. Counsellor told me that when she came near I needed to visualise a shield of white light coming between us, and that anything annoying would bounce off it. I made conscious effort to breathe deeper and focus on the light and found myself calmer as a result.

I was also told to stop using word confrontation as I too always hate confronting people. Counsellor said why is telling people how you feel confrontational? You are allowed to express your feelings. You have a right to be listened to. The other person may try and deny you these things but that is their flaw not yours. She also told me to write everything down in a letter you will not send. Really vent, get it all out. Will help vent the fear and anger and then if/when you do talk to her you will be calmer and more confident. And I would try and tell her how you feel, even if it's by letter or email. No need to be aggressive, just state the facts and how these make you feel. She may not like them, she may get arsey, but this is because she's probably not used to her terrible behaviour being challenged. Her problem, not yours, don't let her make it yours.

And finally, through counselling I realised actually my annoying woman represented all the traits in someone else that I do have proper issues with and was in counselling for in the first place. She was a day to day reminder of my relationship issues with this other person and I was transferring all my anger, hurt and upset to uni woman. Now I realise this, I have been much calmer and more controlled with her. We will never be friends but I can tolerate her and let anything else just roll off my silver shield! Do you think that this woman does, for you, represent all the difficulties you have faced recently too? This would be perfectly understandable.

Thank you so much. I think I might tell her why my ds is leaving the nursery, because if I don't and she moves her ds to the same new nursery as mine, I'll only have myself to blame won't I.

wingandprayer thank you so much for your reply. You have hit the nail on the head as the situation is more complicated than it at first seems:

1. Her son hurts my son. I don't like it and it makes my blood boil.
2. She is intensely irritating, self centred, tactless, insensitive and even in 'normal' circumstances I would not want to have her around.
3. Because of the things she said/did around the time of my termination, and for months after, whenever I saw her she would make me feel worse about myself and my situation, so that now, even though I feel calmer (though still gutted) about my termination, whenever I see her it's like I shoot down a black hole back into the depths of grief and despair I felt at the time. She has become linked in my mind to that period and to feeling absolutely awful and desperately sad. So part of it is quite clearly projection, or something, and to handle it properly, I need to keep that part out of how I deal with the fact that I still don't like what her son is doing to my son and I don't like her and don't want to be her friend.

Atta girl. Not going to pretend it's easy, I cheerfully mull over all the ways I could kill my woman sometimes even now, but realising there are different strands to your relationship with her and dealing with them one by one is the key to success here.

She certainly doesn't deserve your friendship so severing that, removing your son from her son's orbit and having some time and space to be kind to yourself about your tragic loss should be a priority now. Bugger what she has to say about this. Repeat after me "she is totally inconsequential"

I think you do right to tell her. Your own happiness and that of your DS is far more important than this nasty woman. Hope you let us know how it goes.

Is it worth being honest with the new nursery and saying you are specifically moving to get away from this woman and her child and you are terrified that she is going to follow you everywhere.

If you make her sound bonkers enough they might not touch her with a bargepole!

I'm not confrontational at all either, but if her son does that to yours I'd tell her to f*k off you c*t I can't stand you. Or words to that effect. She will not bother you again. Your friends may be surprised but real friends will understand she is bullying you for some reason obv making you feel bad validates her.

Her son sounds like a bully in the making too. Not disciplining a child is laziness, my sil is like that and her kids totally rule her now she is a total doormat in preferance (sp?) to standing up to them.

Decision made. I'm going to email her, probably on Tuesday once I have a bit of time to compose it properly. I feel too emotional about it all to talk to her in person, so think I can get the facts across more clearly and objectively that way. I'll explain that the way her son treats my son makes me angry and upset, and with my son's best interests in mind, I don't want him to be at the same nursery as her son. That way even if she does start looking into 'my' nursery, she knows she's doing it with my absolute disapproval.

I'm also going to call 'my' nursery and tell them about her/ her son and his behaviour being the reason we're leaving the current nursery. I'll ask to be told if she looks around or enrols him and then I can take further action as need be (anyone know any hit men?! )
I will update you on what happens. My money is on her either ignoring me (denial) or sending a simpering and insincere reply (fake).

I'm glad you have decided to do this. You will feel better once you take control and take her power away. I hope your DS settles well in his new nursery and that you are all happier. And I hope she gets the message and leaves you alone. Let us know how you get on if you can.

Poor you, Life it too too short to put up with anyone like this so do not. Rightly said she is toxic to the core. I would also tell her how disgustingly uncaring she was about her preganancy when you were going through such hell and loss before (sorry about your loss). She needs to know that her actions were cruel and thoughtless.
My situation is a step-mil who is vile and has me shaking to the core when i see her ;-( so, i have decided, simple, don't see her (she lives next door!), i havent seen her in weeks and she has no effect on me whatsoever now and never will.

If I can be brave so can you x

She sounds horrid, and very insensitive. Just try and ignore her and hope she gets the message.

So sorry about your loss and she does sound a prize cow.

Lie to her about where you are going to send ds or say nothing. Also do new nursery know about your son being moved cos of other boy? If not say something as at very least will be more watchful of behaviour.

Fwiw I had a similar thing - termination at 20 weeks and I don't think it's totally projection as people can be horrible (not often but you do come across the odd vile type).