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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that John Hemming is a dangerous man?

512 replies

Spero · 24/05/2011 23:04

For all the Hemming apologists - please read this.

www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2011/04/27/hemming-an-abuse-of-privilege/

OP posts:
thefirstMrsDeVere · 26/05/2011 13:45

Haha I just crossed post too!

Hope you see mine Grin

montmartre · 26/05/2011 13:48

arf!

I am just going on some children I know, who are placed (in Foster care) with extended family, who are just as chaotic, abusive, and involved in criminal activity as the parents were, but as there hasn't actually been any physical harm to the children yet ... Hmm

I do also know children of addicts who are cared for very happily and successfully by Gran, Auntie whatever, hence my (delayed) disclaimer. Smile

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 14:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

yukoncher · 26/05/2011 14:22

"CoteDAzur Thu 26-May-11 12:36:49
I bet anyone here would be horrified if someone tried to take their DC away because of the possibility that they might be harmed in the future. Surely, you would say, you wouldn't let anything harm them, you love them, you should be given a chance to prove it.

But it's ok when it happens to other people
"

Absolutely, having had my child perminantly adopted because of future risk of emotional harm.
And then only 4 yrs later having another child and the authority in that different area say I'm okay to keep my second child,
and now be looking after DS2 and DS3 perfectly well, without being on an y child protection register, proves to me that there was no 'future risk of emotional harm' to my first child.
If anyone can help a young mother whose in the position I was in, flee SS and be able to keep her child, then I would fully support that.
Infact I will stop my direct debits to Age concern, Stelter, and whoever else and set up one big monthly donation to anyone who can help young mothers WHO'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG stay with their children, just like I should have been able to.

yukoncher · 26/05/2011 14:27

Heck, my DS has a paternal aunt who offered to care for him, who'd proven to me a good mum to her own kids.
SS seemed obsessed with the fact that she had some rippage to her wallpaper in her house in their response to her offer, and basically ignored her, kept my son with strangers for a year instead.

So angry

UnityMot · 26/05/2011 14:34

If you'll forgive me for butting in here, as the author of the blog post which started this discussion (not my usual practice as this is your space, not mine).

First, I've seen enough of 'Cote D'Azur' in this thread to be confident in identifying him as Ian R Josephs. Troll may change their IDs but their modus operadi rarely varies, particularly when they're as obsessive as he evidently is.

To be absolutely clear, Josephs lives in Monaco where he runs a language tuition business. He is entirely unqualified to give advice on aspects of the child protection system, least of all legal advice, and the 'information' he does provide is misleading, inaccurate and often downright dangerous.

Whatever Hemming's disagreements with Josephs might be, that doesn't appear to stop his 'Justive for Families' campaign from linking to Josephs' website as a source of information, pushing people into his clutches.

As for John Hemming, I'm slightly surprised to see that he hasn't on this occasion, tried to play the 'contempt of court' gambit in an effort to shut down discussion relating to that specific post of mine. That's what he did on another online forum, causing the owner to incur costs as a result of taking legal advice about the advisability of the discussion when they could just as easily have emailed me and I'd have advised to be circumspect about the contents of the post.

To be clear, some of the information in that post may well be sub judice - that's seeming the view of the Local Authority involved in the case - so please steer clear of discussing the detail (as everyone seems to have done so far) and leave any risk to me. I know what I'm doing here and will take care of myself, if necessary, and wouldn't wish to see Mumsnet placed in the firing line.

We're it not for my webhosts having technical problems, I'd have provided a link to a new post of mine which debunks Hemming's allegations of systematic 'baby stealing' using his own statistical 'evidence'.

That post also covers a case submitted to the European Court of Human Rights last October which, as with other cases into which he's inserted himself, seems to involve a parent with a history of psychiatric issues.

This is a theme which seems to run right through the antics of Hemming and his camp folowers. the cases he picks up almost always seem to involve deeply vulnerable individuals, many of whom have a history of psychiatric or mental capacity issues. In short, people who are highly susceptable to the deranged conspiracy theories that Hemming peddles, and all the more so for the desperate situations in which they find themselves. Without giving too much away, I've been talking to quite a few mental health professional who're serious concerns about the activities of Hemming and his followers and the impact this is having on what are often extremely vulnerable individuals who, in their own way, are as much in need of protection as the children involved in some of these cases.

I'm not going pretend that the child protection system is perfect. Mistakes are made. Injustices do happen and some of the people working in the system may be incompetent, arrogant and/or overzealous. Pretty much all are overworked, overstressed and working constantly under extreme pressure in the knowledge that even one poor judgment call can have the most serious consequences. There are legitimate issues that need to be raised and addressed and people working to secure changes that will hoipefully improve the system, and none of the one's I'm speaking to regard Hemming as anything other than a menace who's egotistical personal vendetta against the child protection system is serving only to impede efforts towards securing improvements, particularly in area of openness and transparency of process.

I've said enough for now - thanks for listening.

Unity.

yukoncher · 26/05/2011 14:34

John Hemming, can anything be done a few years after an unfair forced adoption has gone through?
Not to disrupt the child and take him back, but just to have some proof that it was unfair, and maybe for the mother to gain some access to the child? Like the type of rights a divorced father may have

yukoncher · 26/05/2011 14:40

Unity mot
"I'm not going pretend that the child protection system is perfect. Mistakes are made. Injustices do happen and some of the people working in the system may be incompetent, arrogant and/or overzealous. Pretty much all are overworked, overstressed and working constantly under extreme pressure in the knowledge that even one poor judgment call can have the most serious consequences. There are legitimate issues that need to be raised and addressed and people working to secure changes that will hoipefully improve the system."

I am glad that John hemming may have helped publicise some of these unfair cases where SS have failed mothers and children, by seperating them when not necessary.
Pulling those stories out for everyone to see is important so changes can be made, is so important, and I'm glad that's happened.

Maryz · 26/05/2011 14:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 15:09

Unity Mot - You think I am some guy named "Ian"? Shock Sorry, but you are a bit deluded. Someone who has seen me post on breastfeeding and childbirth threads for years will surely come along soon and tell you so.

I am not from the UK and I don't live in the UK. I am not even a native speaker of English (but thanks for saying I write in correct English, Maryz) And I am definitely not a man Hmm

I haven't read any of your blog, but just on that bit of wild paranoia, I doubt that it merits the name "Ministry of Truth".

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 15:14

This old guy? I know of Regency School but I've never seen him in Monaco. Hardly surprising, as I don't socialize with 60-year-old strange men.

SardineQueen · 26/05/2011 15:22

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH @ cote being a man called Ian Grin

Aside from the argy-bargy, as I understand it, John has issues with the fact that with the processes surrounding SS and the family courts there is little transparency and a lot happens in secret. This bothers him. It bothers me. Does anyone have any response to why SS needs to operate with so little transparency, so that people caught up in its workings often don't know what on earth is going on, or why the family courts have to be secret, rather than simply everyone be anonymous? As long as it is a closed shop, surely it is understandable for people to be frightened of what goes on? There are stories, which for legal reasons cannot be refuted. That creates a climate of fear. It is not helpful to anyone.

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 15:26

Not just any man, Sardine. A bushy browed, nutty looking man in his 60s. Called Ian, naturally Grin

montmartre · 26/05/2011 15:27

FWIW, cote is patently not IJ.

SardineQueen · 26/05/2011 15:33

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHDOUBLEHA

Just clicked the link

COTE you FOX Grin

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 15:36

You like my mojo, Sardine? Wink

UnityMot · 26/05/2011 15:59

Apologies, Cote - you're doing a fine job of emulating Ian Joseph's stock arguments, which makes it rather a pity that you don't scrutinise them a little more carefully.

It is not the case here that Social Services needs to operate without transparency, rather its the case that privacy is applied for the protection of vulnerable children and adults. There is a need for greater transparency, yes - greater publication of anonymised judgments would be extremely helpful - but it remains the case that much of the 'secrecy' you ascribe to Social Services stems from legal and ethical duties of confidentiality towards the people they're dealing with in the system.

oohlaalaa · 26/05/2011 16:28

YANBU

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 16:33

I had never heard of that Ian guy before this thread and sincerely doubt that I am "emulating" any such person. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that people can agree on just a few points without morphing into one another.

I have said nothing about secrecy, by the way.

What I have said is that removing newborns from loving parents because of a vague expectation of some future abuse is unimaginable in a lot of Western countries. Obviously not where parents have abused previous children and are proven to be incompetent and/or abusive, but rather where parents have no history of abuse and are fighting to keep a much-loved baby. Fran Lyon, for example. Or that mother who fled the UK because SS was going to take her newborn on grounds that her husband was suspected of abuse in a previous marriage many years ago.

I don't know if you have children. Personally, I cannot think of many things more horrific than having my little baby taken away by force, with the full force of the state ensuring that I will never find her again. I fully sympathize with women who have had to endure this, some on this thread, although they have done nothing to harm their babies.

If you cannot understand that, fine. Maybe you are not human. Still, saying so does not make me a bushy-browed nut and you have undermined whatever credibility you think you have by saying that you were "confident in identifying" me as that man.

SardineQueen · 26/05/2011 16:37

No it was me who was taking about secrecy and transparency.

I'M IAN J!!! Grin

CoteDAzur · 26/05/2011 16:45

You can't take that away from me, Sardine! Go find yourself some other old man to "emulate" Grin

thefirstMrsDeVere · 26/05/2011 16:46

If the family courts were open wouldnt it put lots of people at risk?
The children. Those trying to protect them. those suspected of abuse and/or neglect. The relatives of the children. Partners trying to get away from abuse?

There has to be a middle ground.

TBH, having been through the family courts I wouldnt want all that stuff out in the public domain. Birth mum would probably have the crap kicked out of her on a daily basis on the estate she lives on. She would never be able to get away from her early life, DS would have his life open to all who wanted to look it up.

That cant be right can it?

oohlaalaa · 26/05/2011 16:54

Just read about Fran Lyon, I take the YANBU back. Sorry, I was not fully aware of the facts. Blush

SardineQueen · 26/05/2011 17:04

What's wrong with having it all anonymous as per rape victims?

Obviously identities need to be protected but this total secrecy creates a climate of fear. People who get embroiled in this process often seem to have little support, nowhere to turn, and no recourse. In some cases if they talk about what has happened to them they risk prison (there was a case recently). It creates a climate of fear that makes life much much more difficult for everyone concerned.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 26/05/2011 17:44

I think changes should be made. No one should be threatened with jail for telling their story.

I think its important to understand that there are parents who would be happy to share their story and details without an understanding of just risky it would be for them.

I have supported parents going through CP procedings. They will say stuff like 'They told me I shouldnt have left her on her own but I have to have a life dont I? I mean I should be able to go out, it was only a couple of nights'

They are very open because they dont have the understand they need to protect themselves.

I am talking of parents with LDs. I happen to believe that, given the right (expensive) support many many parents with LDs should be able to keep their children. But they are so vunerable. Not just to SS intervention.

I would like to see proposals for change. I would like to see an idea of how the family courts can be changed for the better.

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