Farmers should not get subsidies

[Kendodd]

I live in the country and know lots of farmers, they are all rich, yet they get thousands of pounds of public money every year, it seems like the richer they are the more they get as well. Fine that they are doing well, good luck to them they work very hard but somebody come on and explain to me why they need a hand out when they live in the sort of houses most of us can only dream of.

Most of them are full time farmers but I do know a couple who are 'hobby' farmers. One DH is a barrister and her 'job' is to fill in the subsidy form, that's why they bought the farm, the other DH works (earn loads, that's how they could afford the house) they have 22 acres and their subsidy pays for their holiday in France every year. Both these families admit it's madness but are not going to turn down free money.

Yes I am jealous before you tell me but I'm also fed up of seeing people in brand new Range Rovers. Rant, rant, rant, sorry.

I know that farmers work very hard and if they do make a lot of money out of farming then great, good for them, I might be envious but that's my problem.

I still don't see why they should get subsidies, I see that if they were withdrawn some farmers would go under and that's very sad especially if the farm had been in the family for generations but plenty of businesses go under. And at the end of the day if the couldn't make a living they could always sell the farm and probably have more money than I could ever dream of having.

We should stop subsidising millionaires and stop importing apples from South Africa and lamb from New Zealand.

I don't think 'slipper farmers' should receive subsidies - those described by MoreBeta. Sometimes their 'land' is not worked or managed well, if at all and it would be fairer to give it to people who wish to make the land productive or make a living from it.

We, in Britain, are at the bottom end of the EU subsidy list - other countries receive far greater subsidy but I do agree that the wealthier and larger the farm, the bigger the subsidy. This includes the Queen.

But ... a farmer with a Range Rover is using it for what it was intended for. Why be jealous? It's not as if they're the twats who use them to take their kids to school and pick up the Waitrose shop.

I have never met a rich farmer, though I believe you they exist - I grew up in a farming village and farming is what most people my age try desperately to get out of because their parents are working themselves to death, diversifying into B&Bs and crap, and still not able to retire. So I may be biased.

But, you know, I really appreciate how beautiful the countryside is and a huge amount of that is down to farmers - I think we'd all feel very differently if all these farmers went bust.

My dh does not like having to abide by the subsidies as they are very restrictive plus if you get things wrong then the payment is pulled leaving the farmer with nothing.

OP - come and spend a few days on our farm, say, in December or January. You would be more than welcome and you could see where your money is being spent.

YANBU

EU subsidies don't benefit the consumer either and have detrimental effects on third world countries. The CAP desperately needs reforming.

Yep, i agree. The CAP is a complete farce which is crying out for reform.

Unfortunately France will never allow it as their farmers will be blockading ports with their tractors quicker than you can say "merde!"

40% of the EU budget gets wasted on the CAP. We had a real chance to make a dent in this except stupid Labour gave up our trump card (our veto) in exchange for a French promise for "talks on reforming the CAP.

Unsurprisingly the talks have come to nothing!

Seems like IANBU and am right

gallicgirl I would love to come and stay with you on your farm and don't dispute how hard you work.

If we didn't get the subsidies (for which we have a heck of a lot of rules and cross-compliences to abide by - not just a case of filling in a form and sitting back and watch the money roll in) we would not be able to survive as a business. We are dairy farmers and are told what price we will be paid for our milk - how many other businesses are dictated to as to what they can charge - for what its worth it currently costs us 29 pence for every litre of milk we produce for which we get paid 26 pence - we use our subsidy to make up the shortfall. Added to which the fact that we are considered to be a family living below the poverty line.

I do agree that the whole system needs an overhaul to direct the money to where it is actually needed and to stop people who are not directly farming claiming.

Wasn't the EU set up in the first place to subsidies French farmers? Seems like it is doing a fantastic job.

So does the CFP, come to that.

"or what its worth it currently costs us 29 pence for every litre of milk we produce for which we get paid 26 pence"

So, would I be right in thinking the only reason you continue farming is because you receive a subsidy to do so?

Surely that does not seem right to you?

I don't know any poor farmers either. Lots of very well off ones, but no poor ones. All the ones I know own their houses outright, drive one or more big, new vehicles, and have over three children who they support ably.

I think that some of the subsidies are good and have stopped farmers from wrecking parts of the countryside.

But it does grind my gears when they plead poverty.

No the reason we continue farming is because it is in our blood - we are trying to increase the size of the herd which will bring our production costs down and are tied up in planning policy etc. We will get there but the subsidies are what is keeping us afloat until that point. The alternative is that we pack up, sell the land to someone who wants to invest his money and then watch as it is added to some great estate. Or worse we end up with no family run dairy farms, instead having all our "British" milk being produced on huge farms run by the supermarkets. Or with the majority of milk being imported from Europe because it is cheaper.

For what its worth I would love to be able to compete on a level playing field without having to rely on subsidies.

Ha ha I opened the thread thinking it might be interesting and you might have some well considered views. How wrong was I! What a load of rubbish you are spouting.

I have yet to hear a good defence of subsidies though, have you got one jade or are you just going to throw insults?

The only defence of subsidies is every other country gives them to their farmers so we have to have them too.

Not much of a defence but a sound economic reason.

If subsidies were taken away the income of farmers would fall, some would go out of business, land prices would fall as a result as farms were auctioned off. In the long run, the price of food would not go up if subsidies were eliminated - land prices would though fall to reflect the lower subsidy income so the big losers would be City investors and banks with mortgages on famland.

We have to either take it away for all EU countries or not at all. This isn't something we can do unilaterally.

Then the farmers can compete in the same basis as most other companies. The fit survive, the unfit ones do not. That's the basis of the free market economies we have as part of the EU.

Yes, kendodd. My solution (obviously not an instant one) would be ensuring farmers receive a market price for their milk that is fair and viable. If it costs more to produce than they are paid, clearly either subsidies are required, or moving away from small family run farms to vast superfarms like Nocton. Personally, places like Nocton don't sit well with me.

Oh, the root of the problem, IMO, being supermarkets. Who pay below the cost of production, yet sell on at a much higher price.

The problem is the CAP which is a protectionist racket and is in urgent need of reform but the French block any attempt to do so.

maybe they might seem richer than they are. at first glance someone sitting on 20+ actres with a massive 6 bed house with beautiful views might seem well off but it might be inherited and they might actually be very poor, not have nay money etc

of course some are loaded but we need to keep offering farmers subsidies to keep food and meat comeing fro mthe uk rather than abroad. we need to produce our own food and usper markets kill farmers, they pay them hardly anything and farmers cant do mcu habout it

wow my typing is bad

Farmers are paid subsidies because food production and countryside management are both far too important to be left solely to the mercy of market forces.

HTH.

Know several farmers round here. Most are NOT remotely well off! Yes, one or two do have Landies, or L200s but they are not new, are are put to hard work. They are business vehicles, like white vans. FWIW you can't tow a trailer full of livestock with a clapped out Ford Escort! The only ones which make any money at all are the ones who have giant fields and grow for supermarkets. They have big houses, because they have been in the family for years, or come with the land tenancy. Most of the farmers I know employ minimal staff, mainly family, and don't draw a wage. They survive.
Subsidies are not ideal, but they keep people's heads above water. They are also responsible for the reinstating of miles of hedgerows in my area.

Maybe you would prefer that all of your food came from abroad?