to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

But thats the point I a from humble back grounds don't have loads of money and I would class 5 cs a good grade sorry I just don't and I would NOT be whopping it up with the teacher I would be pissed

Dispute my humble back ground I still expect better and the school I have chosen do to they don't want excuses they want results

Its about expectations also if I came from a monied background I would be expecting a he'll of a lot more than As I want a stars

just that is really interesting - the dear old Fischer Family Trust at work.

My (divorced) sister's children were predicted to get low grades, now both at Uni - both want to be teachers!

Why do we all have to fit into "boxes"?
Rich = posh, elitist, stuck-up?
Poor = scummy, low attaining, under-class.

It's awful and I wonder how many bad schools there are in "poorer" areas getting away with achieving the bare minimum, because no one ever questions whether they could do better?

Straw man much, Gooseberry?

Anyway this is all becoming pretty unpleasant really and I'm starting to feel somewhat ground down by it, so will leave it alone.

Its the arrogance of the doctors that makes his children do well because he just expects them to do well and is surprised if they fail were the shop worker expects their child to do bad and are surprised when they do well

I despite my background expect greatness and using his background will not wash with me .

I personally think the government should give you the money its costs to educate your child and let you buy the education you want and those who still want the telco value education can hand the money back and have it

Joan that's not fair. I mentioned the straw man accusations, not Gooseberry and to be honest it is NOT enough for you to then turn round and say "oh you're all straw men simply because we question your very rose-tinted view of the world.

Please, before you go, give me an answer. Why don't you propose banning everything that people who are rich can afford, that poorer people can't?

Diablo, I did question it. It caused a uproar. It's only going to change when enough people question it.

And I agree with you totally, I mix with people of most levels, and I don't see why anyone should live in little boxes either.

Joan, but you do want to do those things. You do want to abolish private schools because you think they're "wrong", and then you say well if you can't see how it's wrong we have no basis for a conversation.

And so I'm not really surprised you're ground down by it as you seem repeatedly astonished that not everyone thinks the same way as you. I mean, was it you who said Shame we're the only people on this thread with a sense of justice and morality? That seems frightfully puffed up and if you can't explain yourself then yes, it must be rather abrading for you.

I quite like Maypole. Maypole, I like your posts. They Get To The Point. I don't always agree but sometimes I do and I think your drive and ambition is fab.

I personally think the government should give you the money its costs to educate your child and let you buy the education you want and those who still want the tesco value education can hand the money back and have it

good point maypole and one that a lot of public school bashers seem to conveniently forget.

"And anyways, half the stuff I want, others would be horrified about...so where do you go then. "

Like what, wordfactory?

'tesco value education'? How f*cking offensive to me and tens of thousands of others.

maypole...I thought your kids were at a state school? And I do feel you contradict yourself. You suggest that a 'shop worker' doesn't expect much of his children while you, from a 'humble background', do expect greatness.

tbh it's not really tesco value, they pissed away billions on it to no good effect

Brilliant. Nice one Gooseberry

How can anyone say there's no snobbery on this thread? FFS. I'm so bloody angry that my children's education is considered sub-standard.

My DD goes to a really lovely school. Not a leafy village primary but a school on the edge of a town with a very mixed demographic. I see parents from all socio-economic groups in the playground there. DD is very, very happy. The school is doing well. They value their pupils and parents and they are providing a good education. If that is considered sub-standard then...well, I give up.

Diabalo - yup, I've got me an M.Ed too - but it's in Special Ed so unlikely to be so useful in the independent sector!

Look, I hear all you are saying and we use private at secondary but I'm not proud or happy about that.

I don;t WANT to have to pay thousands and thousands a year to give my kids the education I think they should get for free . It pisses me off that I feel that I have to take my kids out of the system but I do.
I wish we could have discipline and behaviour standards across state schools that would give me the confidence to send my kids there. But we don't.
Unless your kids are in top sets they will have their education and prospects damaged by numpties who will fuck up lesson after lesson, no matter how brilliant the teacher.
I've been there taught that and want my kids to wear the crested blazer.

Olifin as long as you are happy with the school then surely that is all that matters? Why would you care if people on here, who don't know you or the school seem to be making assumptions? If you are unhappy yourself then only you can change that and would have a right to moan on the basis that the school isn't what you want for your children.

With you there Gandalf - praying mine will get into Grammar :)

Fab123 - surely JoanofArgos would want to ban grammar school's too?

I mean, it's not fair is it, that some children do well just because they're clever and live in the "right" county?

[tongue-in-cheek-emoticon]

Blimey, I've been here for hours, off to read my book now.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier and was met with silence...

Actually, I think grammar schools would be fair enough, if there were some in every county.

diabolo Ban grammar school's what?

Fab Yes, I am very happy, as is DD and OH. Perhaps I'm overly sentimental but yes, it bothers me that my DD's school, where the teachers work so bloody hard to provide a good education to a wide variety of children, is being sneered at. Just as I would feel deeply offended if I thought someone was sneering at my home or my children's clothing. It's a matter of pride, I suppose.

There was some good debate on this thread but the moment 'Tesco Value' and 'no good effect' got thrown in, I felt the standard of argument fell quite dramatically.

I think that, except in aeas where for some reason the state schools actually are objectively failing, parents who choose private for their capable, non special needs child end up choosing a different culture more than they do a 'better' education. Certainly at Primary level anyway.

I seriously doubt there is any difference in educational value between the private prep where I work and have my children and the outstanding village primary school over the road. But at the village primary the children arrive at 9, have their literacy and numeracy hours and other lessons as a whole class in their classroom, play in the playground at breaktimes and go home with their parents at 3.15, maybe to an after school activity or maybe to spend some time with their parents. Lovely. At our prep the children arrive at 8, travel around the school to different teachers for different subjects in different sets, do clubs/extra lessons or play in the woods/astros/golf course at breaks, have sports coaching after lessons evey afternoon, head into Prep after sports and to tea after that. Many go home at 6, many stay for after school activities or more Prep (for the older ones on certain days). Many stay on all night as boarders. Also Lovely. But very very different.

There are things about the primary day that I prefer and things about the private day that I prefer. Swings and roundabouts. I don't think you can say that one school is 'better' than the other, they just suit different children for different reasons.

However, I do think most private schools can provide a better education for the very lowest and te very highest ability children, purely because they can be taught individually and in tiny groups with more ease. Our brightest children are streamed into a scholarship form of 8-10 children at 11, preparing them to win scholarships to top public schools. By age 13 they are working to GCSE level at least in most subjects. Our weakest children have individual lessons in English and/or Maths once or twice a week depending on need and are rarely in a set of more than 10-12. Unfair though it undoubtedly is, these children are stretched or supported in a way the majority of state schools cannot manage.

It's also inaccurate to say that 'an A is an A' from all schools as actually some independent schools take iGCSEs and many take the IB which is harder (I think, unis seem to think so anyway). Though having siad that, I think state schools are starting to adopt the IB.

Olifin there was a good prog on BBC about how the downfall of the Grammar school has massively impacted on the education of the Country. The basis of the programme was to show that whereas politicians used to 'get away with' for want of a better phrase, having a Grammar education, now only the 'elite' private sector really provides our politicians. It was Labour who phased them out though, and funnily enough most of them are public school educated.

Sounds interesting Fab, I will look that up.

I don't have a problem with streaming by ability, but perhaps that's because I think my children are reasonably able academically. I would, I guess, feel a bit differently if they weren't.

In theory though, I wouldn't disagree with it. Children will have different skills and abilities, all of which can be useful in life. I personally think it should be ok to say to children 'you're really good at sports/cooking/woodwork, so we think this school is the best one for you as it will help you perfect those skills'. I don't know how things were done back when Grammar schools were the norm but I get a sense that the kids who didn't make the grade were made to feel inferior. Why can't we make more of a big deal of the full range of skills and intelligences so that every child can feel that their particular area of ability is something valuable?

I don't have a problem with streaming by ability, I do have a problem with streaming by wealth.

Olfin I think the trouble came about when people started to say the majority being accepted to Grammer were from middle class backgrounds. Of course not ALL were and it did give the change of a better education to those less fortunate. However the call to scrap them was, I think, meant to make the general level of education raise and not "cream of the top percentage" which has also been an argument against fee paying schools on this thread. Of course abolishing them in various counties has done nothing for the general education and has seemingly forced more people into feeling they have to pay for schooling instead, whilst leaving those who can't out once more.

If I were feeling less harmonious I would suggest that you apply for the local fee paying for a scholarship if your child was musical/artistically gifted etc, as then you would indeed be getting a school better equipped to deal with your child's ability than most state schools...

If my DD's school streamed by ability, I wouldn't be moving her to Private. They won't stream as it is discriminatory.