to ask if you use state or private education

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry, I know it's a little rude and personal but I only ask because I think that only 7-8% of the children in the UK are privately educated yet on mumsnet it seems to be massively higher than that which I find interesting.

So, if I'm not being too unreasonable to ask, do/did/will you use private or state education for your child/ren?

Fab is what you are saying, that middle class people are unfairly burdened with the redistribution of knowledge?

I agree that anyone who has decided to spend any extra cash on private tuition rather than cigs, chav holiday, smart car, posh house is absolutely entitled to make that choice. I know that most people do make sacrifices and cutbacks to send their children private.

But I also think that in some cases, not all (I think Diane Abbott was right, I think Chandon is right,) people perceive an advantage that is not helpful to them or their community. I can't change their point of view, I can only just stick to mine, because it feels right for now.

Anyway as most people have said very sensibly, MOST PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD IT, so the issue does not arise.

is ok fab, i do that too sometimes :)

anyway im off to collect from school.

Both DSs went to academically selective independent schools. There are full bursaries, at the school I work at, for students whose parents can't afford fees but scholarships not available to parents who can afford to pay. Can't understand why parents send children to non-selective private schools just to keep them out of the state system. Feel that IS snobbish but each to their own.

No swan I was pointing out that you are expecting them to do EVERYTHING in this ideological world, whereas the other majority class you seem to ignore for whatever reason, although they should be getting the same. How do you propose the "non-middle classes" help themselves in this situation? Or are they already doing everything they can IYO?

fab thats not the same at all, options jobwise as an adult cannot be compared to start in life offered to children just starting out

Most Private schools achieve far better public exam results than most state schools although there are exceptions to this obviously, so unless you live in a place where this exception exists then if you can send them to private school then surely its the sensible thing to do. The world is changing and having a good education is becoming more and more important so surely you should look to maximise your childrens educational attainment.

There's no such thing as good and bad schools, just schools with a motivated catchment and schools with an unmotivated catchment.

I went to a 'good' state secondary and did well, so did most of my friends. The kids from the council housing scheme down the road also attended the school and mainly did less well, despite having access to the the exact same education that we did - ie in spite of 'equality', it isn't equal because the kids who arrive at school are not all equal blank canvases who can be moulded by education.

They come to school with interests and ability levels created by their upbringing and the level of support they're getting at home.

You could open a free franchise of Eton in some of the areas round here and the results would only marginally improve on what the 'failing' state schools are managing, becuase of the lack of parental interest in/ respect for education.

Likewise, I could have attended the same 'failing' school and only done marginally worse than i managed at my 'good' school.

It's already unequal, paying for school is a side issue.

Oh and state, probably.

Well said Morris you put it better than I did, trying to point out that it's not the schools fault.

Everyone is talking about unfairness! I'm sorry but you make your own way in this life. I work hard and thankfully get paid well for it (I am sure everyone here works hard but its that amount you get paid for what you do that counts) I choose to send my kids - all four of them - privately to school because I can. I prefer it (they started in state). End of. I think it is very fair that I can do so .

Those people who are so sanctimonious about 'fairness' - do you deprive your children of good food, cuddles, clean, safe, uncrowded housing, clean water, warm clothes, vaccinations, medical inteventions? Because unless you do, your children already have a massively unfair advantage over most of the children in the world.

Mrs Guy - that is a very grounding comment you have made there.

agree with Morris Zapp.

honestly I think it's fine that a private system exists, people with extra money will always have more choice be that a private school, or to move to an area with 'excellent' state schools ie middle class parents. it does annoy me when people think that the state system is rubbish, all children who use it will underachieve or be bullied, and all parents who choose to support it are somehow failing their children.

also there are good universities that aren't Oxford or Cambridge, honestly lots of high-achieving state school children don't want to go there

Agreed Mrs Guy.

Anybody lucky enough to live in a UK city (for instance where I live, Edinburgh) has access to free museums, libraries and charity shops where kids books cost about 50p.

But many parents do not use these amenities, although they are free or very cheap. They have no interest in them, and do not think them helpful or desirable for their kids.

It isn't (mainly) a money issue, imo and ime.

Swan river: in your situation, if the local school isn't as good as private, why not send your child private and support the local school anyway with volunteering etc etc.

Your child doesn't support the school - the parents do.

I'm not crazy about the fairness argument either (as a parent of an Etonian!) but as a citizen and taxpayer I still want to see the state education system be as good as it possibly can be across the board. That way my DS may not feel he has to pay school fees for his DCs (if he has any) and society will be a happier place with more fulfilled individuals.
Please note I said "across the board". I know that state education can be outstanding. But not round here.

"And why does it always have to be 'middle class' parents pulling state schools up? I fear any 'lower class' parents reading these posts about how state schools only have a chance if 'middle class' parents deign to send their kids there, might be somewhat offended? Are they completely incapable of having the same parenting skills knitted?"

this is very pithy, I agree

State currently for 1 child, but as soon as I'm working full time again will look into private. I don't want her going to the local secondary school as more students DON'T get 5 A*-C at GCSE than do. Not good enough.

Totally agree^. It is counter intuitive to say that schools need middle class parents, whilst simultaneously saying that all kids are the same.

On one hand, the anti's are saying 'but it's not fair, it's based purely on income', but on the other hand, their position states clearly that isn't just based upon income. It's free to get involved in school issues, all parents can afford to do it. So why do the MC ones bear the responsibility?

well quite - accompanied by the view of some here, that private schools aren't better than state schools anyway so why send your child there

none of it makes sense

if they aren't better, equality of opporunity exists
if they aren't better, what advantage do you resent

if they are better, why is the private school somehow to blame because a state school has gone wrong?

if you can't get a head, the teachers, the parents, the governors etc to produce a better school then a couple of "rich" children hefted in is going to make no difference at all

except to the "rich" children, and the knowledge economy loses thereby

motherof2boys, I am planning to send my DS to a non selective private school, as he would not get into a selective school (bottom table), and he gets beaten up in his state school, and is sinking in a class of 36.

how does that make me a snob?

Chandon it appears that because you are exercising your right to a choice you are a snob, according to some ideological posters who want us to become a Communist State.

Motherof2boys. My DD had offers from 2 schools, 1 selective, 1 not. She is super academic, but has chosen the non selective school, as she liked the ethos, the atmosphere etc. The selectives schools results where only marginally better, not worth risking dd's happiness for, thats for sure. Its about your childs needs, not everyone sends their child to private just to get better results, there is alot more to a good education than pure academics.

But wait! Even in Communist China they have Private schools! How could this be when the ideological settings called for by some are already in place (no choice but state ownership of education and everyone working together for the greater good, not to mention the apparent inverse snobbery)? Could it be because they see there is benefit to having them?
english.peopledaily.com.cn/200403/26/eng20040326_138601.shtml

Oh dear chanson I feel very sorry for your lo mine is going to a outstanding state school but I still have to top up the education

You use outside agencies for that, right?

And do you now understand that an A level grade A from an exam board is the same whether the child is from ETON or a comprehensive? It's worrying how certain you seem to feel on all matters educational when you have your basic facts so very wrong!