To be boiling with rage at my 'landlady'?

[FrameyMcFrame]

I've posted on here before about my horrendous landlady, she's always popping round to 'check' things in the house.
This time she said she wanted to check 'the state and condition of the house and garden'

Ok, fair enough. I tidied up a bit and around she came for a good old snoop.
I left her to it and sat in the living room with my two DC.
After 20 minutes of snooping she came back to tell me that the inside of the shower cubicle was dirty... so dirty that if I didn't clean it soon it would 'damage the glass' Not sure how a bit of old shower gel can damage glass
Then she went on to say that the inside of the oven was filthy...and again it was going to damage the glass if not cleaned. It wasn't that dirty, I'd just used oven pride on it the week before!!! When I said this she went through to the kitchen and opened the oven and ran her finger along the back of the oven door and showed me that it was dirty.... obviously I'd missed a bit.

At this point I had to physically restrain myself from telling her to fuck off...
I was so angry afterwards I had to have a glass of wine to calm down

Yes katie, we signed a renewal of the tenancy on 25 Jan 2011 for 6 months, that runs out 25 july this year.

I really think you aren't correct on that HerHissyness. Notice is always served from the date that the tenancy began.

A Section 21 Notice must be served during the fixed term (s 21(5)a) giving the tenant a minimum of two months' notice if the landlord wants possession immediately after the end of the fixed-term.

Tenancies run on calander months which means they always start and end on the same date. For example, a tenancy commencing on the 10th of the month will end on the 9th. Therefore, a six month AST commencing on the 10th of June will end on the 9th of December.

If the notice is served late, i.e., less than 2 months before the end of the tenancy, then the notice can be served up to and including the last day of the tenancy but possession procedings cannot commence until the full two months' notice has expired.

In the case of a periodic tenancy this notice (s21(5)b) period must end on the last day of a tenancy period. For example, the fixed term ended on the 9th of December but the tenancy is allowed to become a statutory periodic tenancy (becasue the landlord did nothing). The landlord decides on the 15th of the following February that he requires possession. If he serves notice without delay the notice requiring possession must require possession AFTER the 9th of May, giving a full two months' notice.

Once the notice period has expired, if the tenant has not left, the landlord can apply to the County Court for a Possession Order. The Court must then grant the order provided that the notice is valid and that the fixed-term has expired.

I don't really understand that ^

if your landlord doesn't have a reason to evict you, the notice must be at least two calendar months or the same period for which rent is paid, whichever is longer. If your tenancy is periodic, the notice should end on the last day of a tenancy period (the day before your rent is due).

So basically Hissy is right, the date having to be the same as the rent date only applies once it goes periodic. They can give you notice to quit now but it has to be two full months so if you receive it on the 31st, it's the 31st July.

*Notice served before end of fixed term (Housing Act 1988) Section 21(1)(b)

This notice applies to a fixed term Assured Shorthold Tenancy where Notice for Possession is served during the fixed term. Notice under this subsection can be served on a tenant at any time during the fixed term of the tenancy (but not before the fixed term begins) providing the tenant receives a minimum of two months' notice. This is the case even if the two months' notice ends after the Tenancy Agreement has expired.*

I know what you me ENM, and I thought the same, but the para above suggests that if the notice is served within the 6m, and even inside the last 2m, the notice period has to run for 2m, even if that notice ends after the agreement has expired, i.e after 27th July.

That's it Eric!

BUT, AFAIK, the email is not sufficient LL will have to serve notice, in writing, either by hand or by recorded delivery.

I am so sorry you have to move, Framey. Your LL is mad and will one day learn that it's better to keep good tenants than to scare them off for not having pristine ovens for random spot-checks.

IMO the best kind of LL doesn't do inspections at all, but if they do, I think six-monthly is acceptable, more than that gets irritating.

I hope you find a gorgeous little place to move to, with a better garden and nicer LL

Also doesn't it have to say quoting section 21?

see this bit here

'You are to vacate the property no later than 12 noon on Monday 25 July. Where upon we will carry out our full inspection the following week, returning your deposit as appropriate.

We will not be communicating any further on this matter. We are, as you know, away for most of the month of June. When we return, we will be putting in place a Letting Agent, who will require to be into the property and gardens to show prospective tenants the property for rental, all as 4.3.10.3 of the Agreement.'

Well they can't do that. You do not have to vacate until two calendar months after you receive the notice to quit in writing. Do you know (Hissy?) whether this has to be a section 21 notice or just a letter stating notice?

So they are getting back at the end of June, and don't intend to communicate further with you. Well then you just stay put and when they get in touch when they return point out that they haven't served the correct notice and when they do, you will vacate two months after that date

They should also make arrangements to inspect the property on the day you vacate, or the day after. They have to return your deposit in a timely manner, there is something in the DPS about that.

Thank fuck they are getting a letting agent. They will, at least, know what they can and can't do WRT visits.

Oh and does anyone know what you should do about rent if their notice period doesn't correspond to a rent date? So if they gave notice and you had to leave on 31st July for eg - do you pay 7 days worth of rent on the 25th? Or not at all? Seems as though they do themselves out of rent, potentially.

Oh but they could just be getting the LA to find new tenants, not to manage the property....

Well we want to get out as soon as possible but I was quite looking forward to telling her that she'd got it wrong and actually we don't have to move out until august. Just to piss her off.

Just looked it up and yes they just have to give two calendar months notice in writing. Thing is, they did offer us a new tenancy agreement in writing so I'm wondering whether they can now turn around and withdraw it just because we disagreed with them re. the bloody shrubs and refused more visits. Here is the original email.

I am writing to ask if, subject to a satisfactory check of the house and garden, you would like to renew your tenancy for a further 6 months from 25 July 2011.

If you wish to renew, we will be increasing the rent this year in line with the government CPI, (consumer cost index figures) and as per the tenancy agreement. We did not in fact as you know increase the rent last time. The new rental therefore from the 25 July will be £730 per callendar month.

I 'd like to come down to ...... to look round both the house and garden this Wednesday 18 June at about 11am and if you do wish to stay on we can perhaps have a chat about it then.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Just seems so wrong that she can withdraw it on a whim because she's been disagreed with. I don't want to stay, just I really think she needs to learn not to treat tenants so badly, when they pay the rent and look after the place...

Sadly she can do what she wants and there will be no shortages of tenants to pay the rent :(

She's a cow, but didn't she state first that she wasn't going to renew, then said she would, now saying no again? I'd cut your losses if I were you. But bear in mind she still hasn't served you proper notice, and you get two full months from when you receive proper notice. So you will not be moving out on the 25th July

HOUSING ACT 1988

Section 21 (1) (b)
Assured Shorthold Tenancy
Notice Requiring Possession:

To: tenants as named on AST

Of : full address of property rented

From Agent/landlord - specify which & full address

I give you Notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 that I require possession of the dwelling house known as:

full property address

After the : DATE

Signed:

THE LANDLORD/AGENT -

I have to say OP that I think your original email was really pissy. I'm not surprised it's ended like this. She sounds really petty and you have reacted in kind. Sorry and all that :(

No she just sent that emai Eric, she didn't say she was not going to renew it at all. in fact she actually left the documents here for us to sign and send back to her after they were witnessed.

What does really pissy mean though CurrySpice, was it unreasonable what I said?

Another clearer text on notice here

The dates that you are working with are calendar from the contract, and in this case the notice for Section 21, which also gives 2m, but from the date of the notice being served.

SO.

If she serves a correctly worded Section 21(1) (b) on the 1st of June, you have 2m from that date, so you will not have to leave until the 31st of July and have the property vacated in time for the 1/8.

I think

If however she doesn't serve you a proper section 21 until the 15th of June, you have until the 14th of August.

Meant to say, there is no specific form for Section 21, but it has to be worded correctly.

Your mission next week is to get CAB/Shelter advice, I think we are saying the right stuff to you, but you need to check it out properly with qualified legal bods.

Thanks HerHissyness, I will.

I think you sounded as petty as she did - it was pretty stroppy imho and when you're dealing with someone like her, you shouldn't be surprised if she reacts like she did

I think, tbh, you were egged on by this thread and I think you still are being now. I hopw your family hasn't got into a situation you don't want because of it

Is this your only contribution to the tread Curry?

There is back story here curry, this is the last in a long line of serious intrusion. This situation was ALWAYS going to come about. LL is a bully.

LL doesn't have a right to state that oven is dirty, none of her business until the check out.

Yes thankyou herhissyness, I have read the thread. In fact I read it very shortly after it was started if that's OK wth you. I didn't respond as, by the time I had formulated a reply the first email had been sent and imho the die was cast

I agree that the LL sounds like a right royal PITA nad really really irritating

I also think the OP has not handled it as well as she might, partly due to the egging on from the posters here immeditately advising her to go down the stroppy email route and quoting law at her. I think it could have been handled differently / better

I just hope the OP now doesn't have to make a move which she may not want to as a result with all the disruption to her family that that entails. Sometimes what seems like just words on a screen to us, is an actual real life to the OP

Just my opinion of course and I'm aware I am going against the grain

Totally agree with CurrySpice, I suggested you just didn't reply to the last email and just let her sweat it out.

You have to be careful with people like your landlord. At the end of the day she's in the position of power, she can make you leave and that's what she's doing. I'm not saying she's right at all as her intrusions have been well out of order, but I agree that you've been given the bollocks to be harumphy with her in this thread and it's spectacularly backfired :(