to think my redundancy is wrong? (Advice please)

[lollymad]

Hope putting this in AIBU to start with will catch the eye of some HR/Employment Law experts on here.

Long story short: Been with employer 7 years, excellent record, MD has always been openly pleased with my work.

Wednesday morning I went in early to get on with some work. My dept. manager came in at 9.00am and called me into his office.

I was told the department had been reviewed, they were changing it, my duties would be redeployed to other staff so my role, and me are redundant. Effective immediately.

I thought it was an informal chat. I have had nothing in writing, no warning, consultation nothing.

AIBU to wonder WTF is going on?

No - there should have been a consultation period etc before any of this happened! In your boots I would be phoning ACAS in the morning and get them to talk you through it.

I agree with BlueCat - ACAS are the place to go.

However, I believe that consultations are only required if your company has a certain level of employees. I could be wrong though.

You have my best wishes though. It is an awful position to be in and I hope your situation is resolved quickly.

Please go here first:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/index.htm

Agree with above and recommend the link above.

Unfair dismissal.

There may very well be a genuine redundancy situation here (not enough info to say either way). Companies are allowed to absorb roles into other roles if that makes sense. It sounds like that is what has happened here.

However, your dismissal clearly falls short under s98(4) of the Employment Rights Act which deals with the WAY you are dismissed. You should have had an initial letter, a meeting (with a right to be accompanied), a dismissal letter and a right to a appeal AS A MINIMUM. They must also have considered whether there was suitable alternative employment for you.

Have they given you a notice period? If not it is also wrongful dismissal as well as unfair dismissal.

Thank you all for the responses.

BooBearBoo - I've had nothing. I was told of my redundancy, I then asked when it was effective from and was told 'Now'.

Will get some advice in RL then definitely, looks like I've been well and truly shafted!

Yes absolutely definitely definitely do that. It sounds as if you have been both unfairly and wrongfully dismissed.

They should have given you

Contractual Written notice
Information on Terms of settlement

At the very least

^ not necessarily contractual notice. But most certainly statutory minimum notice. What does your contract say about notice? You'd be entitled to the more favourable of the two - contractual or statutory.

Terms of settlement, again, is slightly different. Not a legal requirement.

Did you get a redundancy payment??? If not then that's another claim to add to your list.

Ring Acas in the morning do it immediately, and find out what you may need to put in writing to your ex employers, they should have given you notice, should have advised what you were entitled to. How many employees does the company have employed?

Definitely get some advice.

I work in a small family business and we were in a position where we needed to make some people redundant, we sought legal advice to ensure we could not be taken to court later by people feeling they were unfairly dismissed.

It is a minefield for the employer but there are rules which have to be obeyed. As far as I can recall, you, and other employees who do a similar job, should all have had notice that someone could be made redundant, you should then all have the opportunity to show how you could fulfill the roles available. In the end, it is up to the employer who they retain, but they must have very good reasons for their choices.

Notice period wise you are entitled to 7 weeks' pay (if you have been employed for 7 full years).

Redundancy payment wise you are entitled to 7 x £400 (if you are aged between 22 and 40 and earnt at least £400 pw) = £2,800. This is a payment due to you BY LAW.

That is awful! Nothing constructive to say just some sympathy! I hope you get some answers in the morning :)

Yes forget to mention that. If there are other employees that did the same role as you then they should have been in the potential selection pool for redundancy also. That's a further factor which would lead to your dismissal being unfair under s98(4).

those who are of a certain age are entitled to 1.5 weeks redundancy.

^^ Yes so if you are 41 or over you would be entitled to a redundancy payment of £4,200 (if you had 7 full years' service)

Here use this

www.direct.gov.uk/redundancy.dsb

It gets a bit tricky if you crossed the age bracket during your employment! Put your age into the calculator above, so as to avoid you telling us your age if you don't want to!!

Thanks all.

My contractual notice I think is 1 month - I'll dig out the paperwork in the morning when DCs are out (DS will only try to eat it!)

Don't know about redundancy payment - all I have had is a verbal 'you are redundant as of now' - part of me is still waiting for someone to jump out and say 'Ha, got you - you're not really redundant!'

There are a couple of hundred employees, based at a few different sites, although we are part of a bigger group of companies. We have our own contracts, T&Cs though.

BooBear - I thought redundancy was 1 week per year multiplied by average wage per week over a certain period (3 months or similar?) plus wages in lieu of notice if redundancy has immediate effect plus outstanding holiday pay. It was a few years ago that we did it though so I may be remembering it wrong.

Ok (1) Your contractual notice period is below the statutory minimum so you are entitled to more than it says in your contract.

(2) The fact your co is so big is significant in that it makes it more likely there were others doing the same or similar role to you who should have also been in the pool and also more likely that suitable alternative employment could have been found for you.

I was made redundant a few years ago from a small company and seem to remember that they were supposed to by law pay for you to see a solicitor of your choosing, albeit they can pay a 'reasonable' amount rather than you saying you are going to the most expensive one you can find IYSWIM.

Not sure if it is still like that but certainly worth adding to your list of things to ask when speaking to somebody who does know as legal costs can soon mount up... especially when the company who is making you redundant put some dodgy clauses in the letter you are supposed to sign to show you agree to be made redundant. Not that it made any difference in the long run as the company went bust a couple of months later for all the nice people there, at idiot boss and they hadn't paid anything anyway. Sorry, rant over, can you tell that it hit a nerve?

Which reminds me - don't sign anything without speaking to a lawyer first. or if they do make you sign something, not sure if it counts but try writing a note on it / amending it to say that you are signing under duress or that you don't agree with clauses x, y, z or whatever so you can have some comeback

Good luck - it can be a horrible thing but if it is of any consolation pretty much all the people that I worked with have ended up moving on up in their careers and ended up in better places so fingers crossed that happens for you too.

The link I posted is from the directgov website and it will calculate what you are entitled to financially as a redundancy package, with regards notice period, and whatever holiday you are entitled to you do need advice so that you can put something in writing.

My I add a point ....one thats often forgotten ...its the job that is redundant, not the person ....therefore if you have (example) 3 people with individual job titles, yet cross cover each others jobs ...... then the employer cannot decide one specific job has fallen away and spread the work load - all have to undergo a selection process - but the employer can decide the work load has diminished and one position has fallen away.

You have my wholehearted empathy , having been through it twice and facing it a third trime

The directgov site is realy your best information point.

And for any readers - a union is the best and cheapest insurance policy you will ever have

floweryblue - no that's not right.

It's a week's wage up to £400 (this figure changes regularly but is £400 at present) x how many years' service you have.

It's 1 week for every year you worked there between the ages of 22 and 40 and 1.5 weeks' for every year over 40 (0.5 week's for every year under 22).

Your redundancy CANNOT be effective immediately - that's just simply wrongful dismissal. You are always entitled to notice. There might be a term in your contract saying they can pay you instead of have you work your notice (a known as a PILON clause) but actually if they do this and you DON'T have a PILON clause it is actually also wrongful dismissal!! Although lots of people prefer to be paid rather than work.

Yes you are also entitled to all accrued holiday pay too.