to tell you that KEN CLARKE is spouting about RAPE today I hope he makes it clear hardly any date rapes get to court.

[ScousyFogarty]

KEN CLARKE the cuddly (allegedly) Minister has chopsen RAPE as todays hot topic

I do hope he makes it clear that hardly any date rape aleegations get to court. And those that do often end in "Not guilty" verdicts.

Why is RAPE the easiest serious crime to get away with? Partly because in date-rape cases it is usually one persons word against another; and juries are told not to convict on that basis.

Top brass legal geezers have been trying to do something about it for years. But they have not come up with an answer. Can you?

I never thought I'd be saying this - but, god, Ed Miliband was great in PMQs.

Don't know if I totally agree with the concept of classifying rapes as Date vs Stranger - both are equally horrifying, but in different ways IMO (one is obviously a massive violation by a stranger, and is often violent, the other is a massive violation of your trust by someone you know, as well as a physical violation - I'm waffling here, aren't I?!). Maybe classifying in the same way murders are, in order of severity, rather than by how the offender is known to the victim, would be a better way forward. Something similar to the american system for classifying murders -
1. First Degree Murder: An intentional killing by means of poison, or by lying in wait, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated action.
2. Second Degree Murder: Homicide committed by an individual engaged as a principal or an accomplice in the perpetration of a felony.
3. Third Degree Murder: Any other murder (e.g. when the intent was not to kill, but to harm the victim).

Part of the problem, without "man-bashing" too much, is the attitude of alot of men that sex doesnt matter. They can have sex without emotions involved, sex is no big deal.

So the attitude is it was just a shag, not like the woman got beat up or anything. They forget rape is not just about sex its about power and control.

goes back to my earlier comment where its the actions of the woman that decides whether or not it is rape, when it should always be the actions of the man.

I would be suprised if Kenny C got the boot but he could

I really don't see how his comments can be interpreted as anything but a suggestion that date rape is, as a rule, less serious.

The thing is, date rape and stranger rape are not levels of seriousness - they are different circumstances. A date rape can be as violent or threatening as a stranger rape. A stranger might be polite and reassuring while raping his victim and a date rapist might be violent and abusive.

These comments simply highlight the fact that many people believe that the only proper type of rape is where the victim is overpowered in a dark alley by a stranger. He might have meant well in some way. His comments might have been an attempt to address this issue. If so, they were clumsy and ill-informed. It doesn't matter who the rapist is or where the assault takes place - what matter is that the victim did not consent. Everything else is just the icing on a very nasty cake.

Oops. how did I finish up on this thread? Was reading the other one.

comma longa baby . whole lotta threads going on (as someone once said)

I suppose it has already been said but: Alcohol is often a feature in date rape cases