to worry about my sons education? and if not WWYD?

[KittySpencer]

I'm not sure if this would be better in one of the ed topics, I expect I will be told if so :) but here goes (as briefly as possible):

My DS is naturally very bright however he failed to get into the local selective school by the narrowest margin possible. He was top of his primary class, lots of children 'below' him passed but he didn't, much to everyone's surprise.

The appeals system in our area is nigh on impossible to win, even with support from school (which we didn't have). So DS had to go to local comp. There are no good non-selective schools here - selective get 98% or more A-C at GCSE; non-selective is at best 40%.

DS is now in Yr 8, top set in every subject - though when half the kids in the year can barely write their name, that's no great achievement. His recent scores for effort and attainment are 5's at best. This is top of the school. I queried this as he was getting 6's 2 years ago at primary, and I thought he should be getting higher marks now. The response was a) primary marks are different to secondary (?) and b) he's top of the school - in essence what more do you want?

I worry that DS is getting a substandard education. He does no work at school or at home and has no interest. He bunks off school at every opportunity, or goes in late. The school appears not to care about this, and he still gets what they consider top marks.

I don't think IABU to be concerned over all this, though am prepared to be told I'm wrong :) I'm also not sure what I can or should do next. I wish he could go to a selective school, but I can't see how that could happen. There are no private schools within realistic travelling distance, even if I could afford them. I feel so stuck, and in 3 years, when he gets shit results in his GCSEs, whilst his friends at selective schools get all A*s, it will be too late to do anything - assuming that is there is anything I can do.

He's got the same chance of getting good GCSE's as his selective school friends. I think both you & he need to move on from that unexpected 11+ result. My eldest ds also failed the 11+ and went to an 11-16 secondary modern boys' school whose A*-C was consistently 25%-40%, but he got a boatload of good GCSE's, good enough to now be doing A-levels at the grammar school. Also, he was elected deputy head boy and did countless activities representing the school at loads of things.

I can't believe the school doesn't care if he goes in late - what about their attendance stats?

Surely he hasn't got the same chance as his peers in the selective school at getting good/excellent GCSE results & that's the whole point? There's a selective secondary school near me where something like 80 per cent get A stars at GCSE if you are with this highly motivated cohort the odds are you are going to do rather better than if you are in our local (reasonable) comp. Good grammars seem to have around 60 per cent plus securing very high grades etc too.

At his age especially he's going to want to fit in with his peers at school and if there are no sanctions for being late and skipping class the outlook isn't good. Having said that it's perfectly possible he'll do well. Are there no other schools in the vicinity? I would try to get him back to the grammar I think and would look over on the 11 plus website for advice & exhaust all possibilities there first. In the meantime I'd try to be as positive as possible about his current school and look beyond GCSEs. Can't be easy.

The bunking off would be a real red flag for me. That is a real slippery slope. Bunking off leads to:

• undesirable friends - OP's DS will be associating with the kind of people who bunk off so bunking off becomes the norm
• bad habits - drinking and smoking at an early age is done hidden away, bunking off provides the ideal opportunity and the ideal associates (see above)
• criminal activity - undesirable friends combined with bad habits lead to low level criminal behaviour - petty vandalism, shop lifting and the like

Kitty, your son is about one month older than mine. You need to be coming down hard on the bunking off and failing to hand in homework. This is probably going to mean putting some strict boundaries in place.

Lots of kids go to schools which arent as good as they could be. It is up to parents to make sure that their DCs get the best out of the opportunities available. My oldest daughter is a self-starter so she just needs to be pointed in the right direction. My son isnt a self-starter so he needs to be started, pointed in the right direction and constantly reminded to keep going. I do it because as their mum it's my job.

If the CVA score for this 'mediocre' school and the local selective school are the same then it means that they both move their students on by the same amount. This means that a student with the same KS2 scores will do equally well - it's just that the selectives cream off students that are already more advanced, so they don't have to move them on as far to get the very high A*-C passrate.

In fact, I'd be worried about a selective that can't move kids on further than the comp, given that they are likely to have better facilities etc. My DD's school last year had about a 35% pass rate - she already has an A for her English and appears to be on track to get quite a few more. They also do brilliantly with kids who have real difficulties (socially and educationally) the CVA is over 1000 - but according to pass rates many people would dismiss it as a 'mediocre' school.

"He expected to pass it easily. He never expected to fail."

This says it all really. He cruised through primary, with no effort, thought he could cruise through the exam with a similar lack of effort, and is continuing in the same vein, knowing he can be top of the form whilst barely being there at all. He has probably always been praised as clever and has never understood that there is always a point where natural intelligence is not enough and you actually have to start working. I reached that point at A levels, brighter friends at university. He has had a glimpse of it with the entrance exam, so you need to use that and sit him down and try to impress on him that if he wants a particular future, he's goign to have to knuckle down a bit.

Oh, and I don't think it's the school that's the problem. I was at a selective private school. Breezed through with minimum effort then tripped up completely with my A levels. I was astounded to get lower marks than hard working thickoes.

'Hard working thickos'...See comments about the low status of effort on the education thread Gubbins :).

Feel for you OP.

I didn't sit dd for any entrance exams, though she breezed through primary in tops sets, and she has gone to the local comp where after a lot of angst she's finally settled down. She's in top sets for everything and has been put on their 'gifted and talented' register.

She's refused to turn up to the additional classes they run for the 'gifted' children. Says all the other children are 'neeks'. She does no work but is constantly getting postcards sent home congratulating her on her achievements. The school is very well run and does well with the intake that they get, which is drawn from a very deprived and ethnically diverse community.

I've given up stressing about it tbh. Life is too short. She's happy, she's literate and numerate. She has good self esteem. I suggest you do the same. Unless you want to bankrupt yourself sending him private. Or home school him so you can give him a chance to develop his own interests academically without being shoe-horned into the national curriculum.

Would want to add - DH and I have a set of strict rules for DD. Unless she: gets all homework completed, gets to school on time, and does her piano practice, she's not allowed out with her friends at weekends. No arguments.

Thanks for all the advice, I think we have to try and get over the grammar 'disappointment' and deal with where we are now.

It's difficult though as people I haven't seen for a couple of years assume he is at the grammar, others whenever schools are mentioned tell me we should have appealed the appeal etc...the thing is I understand what it's like for DS, because I went to a crap comp, and coasted through school (my undoing was uni - discovered alcohol, late night parties and boys in my 2nd year, and ended up with a 2:2 as a result!). I do know though that I was brighter than DS, and though I did no more work (my school was not even streamed so if anything worse than his) I concentrated in exams and gave it 100% because I never wanted to get less than full marks. whereas DS knows that he will get a 'good' score without trying, and will settle for that.

So I have tried to tell DS that there comes a point where you can't coast, and also being top of a bunch of kids who aren't that bright (in the main) doesn't mean much, he needs to be the best he can be, not just naturally a bit better than them.

We do need to work on his motivation though. And cut out the skiving and lateness. Mostly this is him going in just after registration (so half hour late) his form tutor thinks he is fab, and lets him get away with it a lot. Also he has left early claiming to be ill (he's not) or gone home early forsame reason. School is v lackadaisical over all this - but this is because he is a charming polite boy when he wants to be, is in top 10 for merit points, and not 'trouble'. So he gets away with it.

Well, I went to the local mediocre comp, and managed straight As in unstreamed classes and disruptive students. I think it gave me a great work ethic and a strong belief in my own ability.

I agree with those who suggest that you need to take control of your son's attendance and stop blaming the school. I'd be looking at music lessons and broadening his horizons with art galleries, museums, meals out and weird and wonderful things. Show him the world and what is out there, there is so much beyond the grammar schoolgates.

Could you ask them if they have a Gifted and Talented program to stretch him a bit? Or perhaps find some competitions he could enter - there are a number of poetry ones ATM. Something like Dof E would also give him that sense of motivation.

Also a few visits to Uni's/colleges? They sometimes do open evenings where you can talk to students and staff - it isn't just limited to year 11's. My DD went to a nearby uni and that really helped with her motivation.

And finally - you may want to consider changing the way you talk about/regard the school. It is highly, highly unlikely that Level 5's are actually the best marks in year 8. Even really challenging schools have intakes with students at L5 in Year 7, and being in top sets does not mean you are the brightest in school, particularly in a small school where top set can have a range of ability over 2 levels. If he goes on believing that he is a little pearl of incredible brightness among stupid kids who can't write their own name, he's not likely to see any reason to work - he already thinks he's so much better than the others that he doesn't have to work/attend/do homework and can still beat them, so I wouldn't be saying anything that might reinforce that opinion.