To put this here because I got no answers in "Sleep" and I would really like some help please

[B4Beatrice]

Not sure if CC is working, or am I doing it wrong?

DD 21 months, had never fallen asleep in her cot. Only ever bottle fed to sleep in our bed and we then move her into her cot.

Have been doing CC for 4 nights. Here is how I have been doing it.

Bath
Pjs
Milk and wind down (in our bed)
Move her to the cot.
Tell her "lay down its sleep time"
If she is not trying to sleep, and is standing up and playing, I leave her for 5-10 mins.
Repeat "lay down its sleep time" sssh/pat etc.
Leave her again etc etc.

We have been doing it for 4 nights. She has fallen asleep on her own without me in the room once, fallen asleep with me patting/stroking twice and has fallen asleep alone but with me sitting next to the cot once.

So I think it is working, however all 4 times it has taken nearly an hour. This is what I am a bit concerned about.

She only has a very short nap in the day, normally in the car, normally at some point before 2.30pm.

When I leave her she is crying but it is not constant and not hysterical.

Is it taking longer just because she is older, do you think?

Would love some help and opinions.

Thankyou

I did CC with DD2 but kept the routine exactly the same each night. So, bath, jammies, feed, then straight to cot in very darkened room. Took 3 nights (up to 45 mins each night) and after 3rd night, down without any problem. What time are you putting her down? What time does she get up in the morning?

4 nights isn't that long, my HV suggested it can take much longer with some children.
It sounds like its going ok really, although I'd imagine you'd like it to be taking less time. If she's not too upset, maybe leave her slightly longer between visits to re-settle her. Might be worth reducing the 'value' of the settling too and maybe just pat and shh, but not say too much. Do you have a DP/H to help? I found my DD settles (she's 4 now) more quickly with DP than me as she knew there was no milk on offer and she was less interested in getting Daddy to hang about and keep her company!
I'm not a fan of leaving babies to cry and get distressed, but some babies need a little cry to help them settle.

An hour for the first few nights is not that bad, I promise.

You are getting there, but it's natural for kids to protest when you change their routine. I co-slept with DS, but was told it was "un-natural" by my family... The co-sleepers in here would LOVE my parents. Anyway, once I tried getting him to sleep on his own, it took 2 hours the first night. And he managed to scream enough to make himself sick. By day five, we were down to about 45 mins of protest, unless he woke up in the middle of the night, in which case, hell could break lose. After two weeks, he was no hassle at alll. In fact, nowadays, the ex in-law's are amazed at how good he is at settling in at bed time.

Keep strong, you'll get there. :)

Thankyou.

K999-I put her down at 8pm. But because she isnt going to sleep untill 9ish she is not waking up until 9am. I know I need to get her up earlier and am determined to do so tomorrow! But it is quite hard when it's a choice between getting up or staying in bed! Will set alam tomorrow!

Beamur- I am not a fan of leaving babies to cry at all. But I am feeling okay TBH, I think it is because she is never sounding distressed, just moany and angry. Also the second I go back in she stops and is all smiles.
DP is often not home until 8.30 so I don't want to add him to the equation when I am half way through as she will most probably perk up when she sees him!

Thanks again

Dont- We have co-slept on and off and always did when she woke in the night, but since she has been falling asleep in her cot she has been sleeping through. I guess it is because she isn't waking up in a different place. Thankyou for the encouragment!

What's her bedtime routine like, OP?

Dinner at 6.15 ish
Run around like a loon until 7pm. Not sure why she does this but I'm thinking it must be burning energy off.
7.00pm Bath, teeth brushed- this is very traumatic at the moment and normally involves me holding her and doing it whilst she is having a full blown tantrum.
1oz of milk with 5ml of Piriton (prescribed by GP for eczema)
Dry, apply lots of creams (!).
PJs
Full bottle in my bed, wind down time maybe a story or just a quiet chat.
8pm in cot. See OP for what happens then.

Any ideas if it can be improved?? Or if it is the problem?

This all sounds sensible, stick with it a little longer, it won't last forever. Good luck.

You're almost there! 4 nights is nothing, I'd you're not fussed about fast results it's ok to pat/stroke them to sleep. We still end up lying next to our dd - but she's often out within minutes. We were cosleepers too, tbh if we could have gone a bit longer I would have. Just hang in there, do what feels comfortable. If that means a couple of weeks of patting, so be it. There's so much pressure to do it fast, often involving hours of crying. Go at a pave that suits you both.

I thought that with controlled crying, you go in for one minute maximum and say, "lie down, it's sleep time" tuck in, and leave.

Not sure where the patting and sitting by the cot come in.

I'd say you've made giant progress - now time to seal the deal :o

Pave??? I meant pace!

Nope, I'd say you have the routine spot on.

CurrySpice, there's different variations of CC. The one OP is using is the one I used, where you gradually move away from the cot.

You are doing really well, it's great that you are helping your LO to feel confident about sleeping alone. I agree that 4 nights is early days, it has taken me about a month to really crack this with each of my DCs - it helped me to set my mind to it as a long-term strategy towards healthy sleep habits for life.

A friend suggested this to me when I asked her the same question as your OP - stay in the room while your DD settles herself to sleep in her cot, but don't engage with her, just sit within sight of her, read a book or magazine, but avoid eye contact and don't interact.

I had to modify her advice a little and do some interaction e.g. when my DS started banging the wardrobe doors for fun (he could reach them from his cot), and sometimes he messes about with the curtains. When he does that I just move his cot further from the objects of interest. Occasionally if he's really not settling I'll give him a quick cuddle before laying him down again, but on the whole if he's tired and ready for bed it does work, usually within maybe 15 - 20 mins for us, sometimes much quicker.

This won't work for all children though, my older DD was a special case, she's a determined sleep dodger, didn't sleep through 'til she was 3.5 years old, and the one time I tried CC with her she screamed for 6 hours (truly no exaggeration!!!) before I caved in and fed her to sleep. I really regret ever trying the crying method with her, she is very sensitive, also incredibly strong willed, I should have known better!

Good luck - it sounds like you're on the right tracks.

Okay!
CurrySpice- You have hit the nail on the head, I'm not really sure if I am doing it right!
It's just when I go in and she lays straight down and looks sleepy I wonder if that if I go out it will make her cry again and be less dozy??

Or am I making it worse, and just making her upset for no reason?

I agree that there are many degrees of CC. The OP is using something similar to the "disappearing chair" where the parent is present as the child nods off but moves further & further away from the cot over a few nights.

On the subject of chairs... The second time I went through this stage with DC, I put a really comfy armchair in the toddler's bedroom. Makes all that waiting around much more bearable!

OP I'm no expert - mine are 8 and 11 but I thought you went in and settled with no fuss and left.

Like Peanut says, there are as many methods as there are kids. Just saying what worked for my DD1.

It sounds like you DC is90% there to me and you're doing great. TBH it sounds like she's more settled when you leave her to it

But you are her mom, do what you think is right for her

Aha, what's happening there is she's testing if crying will bring you back and get her old routine back. Maybe, try leaving the room gradually, but before leaving, say goodnight. If it's just little grizzles, then leave her be. If it's full blown crying, then go and resettle her.

The next time, increase the length of time you let her cry for. So, the first time may be 3 mins, 2nd 5 mins, and so forth. It reassures her that you're not leaving her, but that she can settle on her own, and you're there IF she really needs you.

Or carry on with the disappearing chair, and hush her from the chair if she needs resettling. Sorry, it can be a bit trial and error. And there's so many different methods to try.

It might sound like a long time but chart your progress and give it two weeks - I think you will have it cracked!! Tell her what you are going to do and see if she will confirm / respond. ie Mummy is going to sit here and you are going to go to sleep. Stick to a plan and reduce your interention / proximity with time. Don't worry about it taking a long time, it will get better.

Great news that she is no longer waking at night - what a result!!

The only things to think about are whether you should have her last bottle and wind down time in her bed not yours (are they in the same room?) and I wonder if the running around like a loon and tantrum teeth brushing are a sign that she is actually over tired by this stage. Earlier bedtime can sometimes work a treat (and you get an evening!!). Could you aim for a 6.30/7 bed time by stopping the day time nap for a few days or waking her earlier?

Good luck - it sounds like you are both doing very well!!

The way I kind of saw it was that if she was laying down, closing her eyes etc I dont mind patting/helping her to fall asleep.

What I am not prepared to do is stand in there whilst she is playing/standing/singing/doing "round and round the garden" to her self or fake falling over and shouting "oh no"! So when she does this, that is when I leave her and go downstairs with the monitor on.

After 10 mins or so I go back up and re-settle. And like I said, she has fallen asleep once totally alone, once alone but with me in the room and twice with me patting her.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing more harm than good or setting our selves up for more problems.

Thankyou

Misty- def need to wake her earlier. Will do that tomorrow.
Would like to drop a nap but I cant stand staying in all day and she sleeps in the car.

Our bed is in a different room. I did also think this but if I put her in her cot she doesn't drink her milk. I am a bit worried about taking the bottle away as she has no dairy due to exzema and is prescribed Nutramigen AA so this is the only place she gets calcium and other things that you find in dairy (I know calcium is in other foods stuff but nothing like the same quantity).

Do you think it would be better if she had her bottle in her room with me cuddling her in the arm chair?

Well then OP I'd say you are doing just great - really :o

I'd say that going in, giving a pat and saying "settle down my darling, it's time to sleep" (or whatever you call it - "ni-nights" in this house ) and leaving her seems to be working. Do it regardless of what state she's in and she'll get the message

Can I just say, once again, there is no right or wrong, this is just my experience and you know your DD best and it sounds like you are so getting there :o

You're doing so well with this :) I remember how difficult it is, with vivid memory...

I will ask though, do you feel it necessary to pat her, or is she quiet with out? If she's quiet without the patting, then just sitting by the cot should help. If the ppatting is needed at the moment, next time, try adding a "sssh" sound. Just a gentle one. Then, gradually stop with the patting. She should be more focussed on the sssshing sound, as it's her reassurance you're still there. Then, gradually increase the space between sssh's. The next night, you may be able to omit the patting, and so forth.

Misty- I feel her communication skills are reasonable now. So I do tell her whats happening. She understands " P, tonight you are going to sleep in your cot". She gets in arranges her pillow and duvet, but just can't fall asleep for ages.

Tonight she pointed at her cot and said "sleep.........cot". So I think she is getting the hang of it.

Just worried as if it is always going to take this long, we are no better off than we were before.

Also thanks CurrySpice. I wish there was a right or wrong. I am a bit black and white and would of liked it if the midwife gave me a guide book at birth, probably titled "The Complete and Only Baby Manual"!