If I gently tell my friend some home-truths

[Nando95]

Hi all, I have a very good friend who is a lovely person. She has 2 children, a baby boy of 4 months and a 4 year old daughter.

Her 4 year old child is in my opinion very controlling, demanding and watchful- she has major tantrums over the slightest thing and the 10 minute journey to nursery often takes more than half an hour due to the childs constant tantrums and refusal to walk.

Her mother walks on egg-shells and has told me that she dreads it if the slightest thing does not go her childs way due to her violent moodswings.

She has told me that she thinks her child is spolit but does not like to discipline her as she gets too upset and her DD gets harder to deal with.

Her daughters behaviour has been like this since she was tiny and in my opinion its partly because she has been given too much control from an early age- i.e-she controlled what her parents ate and whether or not her rain cover went on in torrential rain.

The other day she had an hour long tantrum because someone kindly opened the door for her mum in the shop and she wanted to do it.
Anyway her friends at her nursery including a lot of mutual friends children have started to notice and have started to avoid her- with one child calling her a spolit brat ( which I do not condone btw).
Some of my friends have expressed concerns that they dont like their children being around this child as their children start to copy her ways!

Her mum has said to me that she feels her child is being picked on and has told her child to stick up for herself not realising that the other children/parents are avoiding her because of her behaviour.
I have bitten my tongue until now but feel that maybe I should try to guide her as I have noticed that other parents are beginning to avoid her.

I am not saying that my parenting is perfect but I can see the potentional problems that this may cause my friend and her child!!
Do I say nothing or stick my neck out and try to gently guide her and if so what do I say Help please.

I would say nothing.

I lost a good friend in circumstances like this. Ironically because I hadnt said anything (there wouldnt have been any good way of saying, 'your ds is too violent and our children are too scared to play with them' but then completely mishandled the situation.

Some children are much harder to parent and would create difficulties for the most perfect of parents, due to thier temprement and self expression.

Both of mine are averagely easy, but I have friends who are good parents who have children who are very challenging in different ways, eg very impulsive, no fear of danger, highly active, highly strung, high need for attention, disposition to want to control, explosive anger outbursts, extended sulking/witdhdrawal etc etc.

Yes all these could be caused by poor parenting, but equally they are all within the normal boundraies of personalty traits and somechldren will be extremes of these causing frazzled parents and a harder time at various points.

If someone is your friend you have to judge whether they are trying thier best with a diffiuclt child or just totally inept.

it's also worth remembering that strategies that may work for you with your averagely tempremental child may not be the best thing thing for that parenst and their off the wall child, they've probably tried the usual strategy and found that it the endin this case it's actually better to do x/y/z.

2posh, my DD1 was also like that when she was young but she is now a lovely teenager. DD2 has never been like that so it's definitely a personality thing though I wouldn't walk on egg shells around any of my children. DD3 is age 4 and is like my eldest

Say nothing. It will end in tears if you do. Trust me

I have a 7 year old with ADHD, attachment disorder and behavioural difficulties. I sympathise with your friend having been there and done that .... and no, I wouldn't appreciate any friendly advice about my son because I know better than anyone else exactly what he's like! I imagine your friend does too and is probably very worried about her daughter's behaviour.

And my son still won't walk to school - I drive because I know that's the only way I would get him there.

If her daughter does need help and if your friend needs support then she has to reach a point when she is ready to access help and support.

Until then be there and be a shoulder for her.

Then come to tea when he's here TSC, if you want to see a child with a whole round of bread in his mouth chewing with it wide open and spilling pieces of food on the floor. I don't allow anyone to eat like that at my table, not anyone. Don't care who they are. This is a boy who puts an entire satsuma in his mouth at once, a whole round of toast, two or even three digestive biscuits, an entire slice of cake, a fistful full of everything. And I've shared enough meals with them all to have seen this, and never once has his mother told him not too. I stand by every word, it's disgusting and I will not have it at my table.

I'd tell her if she was distressed about it. I'd tell her with love and support and in a very gentle way, I'd feel a bad friend if I didn't try and help.

No, no and thrice NO (unless she asks for advice!)

Hmmmm

I've been accused (by my mum and DH) of giving in too easily to my youngest dc (5), who is very forceful and has had tantrums which have in the past reduced the entire family (well - me and other dcs) to tears.

For me giving in was a coping strategy - just a way to get through the day. My older dc's would take 'no' for an answer. My youngest was incredibly forceful and difficult. Often I'd say 'yes' out of sheer exhaustion, knowing that a 'no' would be met by a tantrum that would throw the entire day into disarray.

I've recently found out that he's got ASD. Explains an awful lot. Ordinary strategies for discipline don't work with him in the way they did with my other children. I'm looking for a way forward now, of doing things differently.

So in short - no, I wouldn't say anything to your friend other than to provide a listening ear and a shoulder to cry on. She must be finding life tough. It could be that her dd is just a very spoiled child. But there might be other issues there too that complicate the picture.

I agree with those saying don't say anything.

It does look within the realms of possibility that this girl may be more than just a normally challenging child for whatever reason; I know you say she has been given into too much, but equally this huge need to control may in itself be a symptom of something, for example many children wouldn't even TRY to control what their parents ate or whether the cover went on the pushchair in torrential rain.

I think from where you're standing it's impossible to decide whether it's completely a parenting issue or whether there is a possible special need there in terms of the little girls development. So I wouldn't say anything. Other than "she must be hard work, I do admire you, is there anything I can do?"

Say nothing - your friend needs a sympathetic ear not guidance. Her DD sounds like my 4 yr old DD and believe me I try my best. I doubt there is anything you could suggest that she hasn't already tried or thought about.

You say that she has been "like this since she was tiny" which suggests her personality has alot to do with it.

I had my fair share of battles over rain-covers and I have the refusal to walk...

I think you are right about the problem if her parents let her have that degree of control (my DD hates her raincover but it goes on anyway - tough! I know best and I'm not having a soaking wet child just because she is having a paddy about it).

But your friend must be terrified that her DD won't love her if she makes her do what she needs to do - otherwise she wouldn't have capitulated like this for all these years.

That suggests that your friend has quite a deep-seated anxiety/insecurity about whether her DD (and other people) will love her if she sets some boundaries, and this fear trumps what I am sure she knows intellectually - that as the kids mother she ought to insist the raincover goes on!

Given this fear/insecurity is pretty powerful, then, I doubt whether a little word from you is going to be enough to address it. She will know it all already.

My friend has the same issue with her DS (4). Lots of mutual friends not doing play anymore. I've not said anything about his behaviour. I just try and chivvy him along when he starts one of his almightly strops and I won't accept rudeness or selfish play in my house. My DD used to love him but not so much anymore due to the moods. I really like my friend but she's given her son no clear boundaries at all (he's allowed to hit her, dictate social outings, clothes etc)
so it's really her fault. I just try to see her minus kids. Much easier.

I think if the school thing comes up it would be ok to mention gently what you have noticed and about the other children calling her a spoiled brat. Gently though and without judgement. If she then wants your advice she can ask for it.

4 is a funny age - my DSs had a brief return of, ahem, stubborness.

As far as other children are concerned; being exposed to other naughty children, and not having adults helicoptering over them to sort it out, will be commonplace in reception. It's a life lesson not to copy others unsociable behaviour, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Leave it be, unless it becomes an in your face problem at playdates in your house.

I'm not altogether convinced by the say nothing approach, but neither do I think wading in with advice is the way forwards.
If she is already talking to you about it, then trying to work out what she means is the hard bit. Is she asking or telling you? Are you supposed to be reading between the lines and offering the advice she is covertly asking for, or are you supposed just to listen while she unburdens herself? I think trying to ask questions to help you establish this is important. If she's asking for advice and all you're doing is nodding sympathetically she may be cursing you in her head thinking 'Don't just agree, help me here!' Or she may get annoyed if you offer advice that she really didn't want because she was just letting off steam. So, things like 'is there anything I can do? Even if it's just a friendly ear?' might help. Might tell you more about whether she wants another opinion or not!