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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised that washable nappies aren't that green - and haven't been for years?

149 replies

ScaredyDog · 15/05/2011 23:26

Here

Yes it's the Daily Fail, but according to the article the green credentials of washable nappies were discounted by the Environment Agency in 2007.

Apparently there is "no significant difference between the environmental impacts of disposable, home use reusable and commercial laundry systems."

I'll be honest - it's always puzzled me how washable nappies could be considered to be friendlier to the environment because of the use of washing machines and chemicals to clean them.

OP posts:
nannyl · 16/05/2011 09:53

I read the whole report cover to cover.... it took me ages
here is my opinion (that i also posted on here in 2007)

this is my opinion on the report...

which i have read pretty much cover to cover.

Here is the link should you want to read it:

www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/nappies_1072099.pdf

you will see that this is May 2005 and one of the biggest studies of its kind. Also the one that most people refer to.

You can read all 130ish pages, + 50 pages of appendix if you like.... OR i will summarise it for you for people who cant be bothered.

ANYWAY

they assume that 1/3 of people wash their nappies at 90c (i disagree!) table5.7
they assume 10% of nappies are ironed (5.14.7)
they assume 60% of nappies are tumble dried.... (if you look it says their survey sugested that 19% of people tumble dry their nappies but because 75% of household use a dryer they decided to use a figure of 60% (off the top of their heads basicaly)(9.3.2)
they assume 50% of people add softner to their nappies im sure anyone who uses nappies KNOWS that you do NOT ever add softner to nappies cause it stops them from absorbing.... (also consider the enivironmental impact of the softner.... and of manufacturing the softener.... and of driving to sthe supermarket to by the softener and of the softener going down the drain etc etc) (5.14.5)

It also assumes most people SOAK their nappies and allows 10 litres of water per day.... on top of 75 litres per washing machine load.... a large overestimate on the amount of water most modern machines, having recently got a new washing machine trust me i KNOW, so 85 litres of water per day (5.14.2)

They assume that people have 47.5 'terry nappies' nappies per 6 months (9.3.5)...
and then asses the full environmental impact of manufacturing all that cotton to make 47.5 nappies per 6 months.... and its the [b]MANUFACTURE and water used during manufacture that is basically the major environmetal 'problem / issue with' washables[/b]

also they acknowledge and justify this figure and in the same sentance say that actualy only an average of 40 nappies are bought for the LIFE of the child (personaly i cant believe that is an accuare average.... does anyone know anyone with more than 40 nappies?... EVERY person i know has LOADS less)

Its is assumed that 12 nappies are washed at a time (5.14.7) and that it takes a WHOLE HOUR to iron 12 cotton nappies.... and they use that figure of electricity... ie an iron on for an hour to iron 12 cotton sqaures..... [maybe 12 seconds would be more accurate? or 0 seconds for ironing nappies!]

FOR disposable nappies they assume just over 4 (4.05) nappies per day... this is a LOW estimate IMO especially when you consider new born babies (9.1)

In the summary they conclude that reuasable users should reduce they energy they use washing and drying nappies.

SO..... they DO over estimate the washing temperatures, water use, tumble dryer use and iron....

they also allow for FAR too many nappies being manufactured (washables) and asses the environmental imopat of the commercial manufacture of the cotton...

(no mention of bamboo which is a much more environmantally friendly material and becoming increasing popular with washable nappies)
then there is the fact that loads of people who choose washables are 'environmentally aware' people who are likely to be using less than 'conventional' washing detergents... such as soap nuts or eco balls, and are likely to be using more energy effiecient machines, due to the way they think.

the fact that they only allow for 12 nappies being washed per load then 60% tumble dried (when only 19% of their survey suggested they tumble dried their nappys, AND allowed 1 hour of electric for the iron per load).... yet allow for the maufacture of nearly 200 nappier PER CHILD just shoes how rediculosue this whole study was!

QueenofDreams · 16/05/2011 09:56

You also need to bear in mind that this particular report was commisioned by the makers of Huggies (iirc) It was never going to be unbiased.

Along with all the other assumptions it made about people's washing habits, they also assumed that we wash 4 nappies at a time in a large load machine, every single day. Which is bollocks.

They also neglected to consider the landfill aspect which is a massive problem, or the environmental impact of the production of disposables ie the toxic chemicals used in their manufacture.

PinkIsMyFavouriteCrayon · 16/05/2011 10:32

Higjack alert

Can I have some honset advice about switching to re-useables as you lot all seem to know what you're talking about Smile

I use disposables. They are expensive. And make DD's wee smell funky. I'd looked into cloth when pregnant with DD but didn't know a single soul who used them and so stuck with the safe option of disposables. I'm seriously thinking about switching. DD is 17 months so realistically is stil going to be in nappies for at least anoter year. I'm also not done having children so they could be re-used.
I was looking at these thinking how cute some of them were and they seemed reasonable (although I know I will have to pay extra for inserts).
Can anyone tell me if they think they would be any good?
Also realistically how many do you think I would need?
And how often would the washer have to go on?
What happens when I'm out and about? Could I get away with just a change of liner (in a wee only situation) or would I have to change the whole nappy?
If they don't look any good can you recommend a particular brand?

I'm so sorry, I know AIBU is not the place to ask this but since the thread is about them and so many of you are obviously users of cloth I thought I'd ask Grin

PinkIsMyFavouriteCrayon · 16/05/2011 10:33

hijack sorry

KaraStarbuckThrace · 16/05/2011 10:35

Gosh yes, forgot about the soaking aspect! Never soaked mine (except at first then realised I didn't need to). Just rinsed off the pooey ones down the loo using the shower attachment on the bath.

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 10:38

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KaraStarbuckThrace · 16/05/2011 10:46

I probably wouldn't use that link - they seem very very cheap to me.

Best course of action is to find your local Nappicino(have a look in your MN Local), they will be able to show you different types of nappy to help you find the ones that suit you. I wouldn't get all the same type, night ones tend to be different to day time ones. Also the fit can vary widely.
You'll need a nappy bucket and a waterproof bag to put nappies in when out and about. If the nappy isn't stained or wet you may get away with just putting a new liner in when you are out and about, otherwise you will need to change your baby.

Some websites that are good for info and buying -
Lollipop Nappies, Baby Kind, Green Baby - google these to find the webites. Nappy Lady I think does second hand nappies as well. And also there are people selling used nappies in the For Sale section here as well.

raindroprhyme · 16/05/2011 10:49

do you iron your nappies.
according to teh Environment agancy we all do.

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 11:02

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KaraStarbuckThrace · 16/05/2011 11:31

I know.... they must think we is fick.

Ironing nappies is a HUGE no-no as that flattens the fibres and makes them less absorbant - same with using fabric softener!
I mean you wouldn't iron towels would you?? (Unless you are my mother who irons EVERYTHING Hmm)

RitaMorgan · 16/05/2011 11:42

Pink - if you want cheap, decent all-in-one nappies go for Coolababy or Alva. You can buy them from Babybots.co.uk or Ebay. They're not the best nappies ever (you'll have to change them every couple of hours and they won't last overnight) but they're about a fiver each - whereas I have some really good Itti Bitti nappies too that cost nearer £15. I use Coolababys for everyday nappies quite often though.

DitaVonCheese · 16/05/2011 12:38

Pink I would go and have a look at the nappy forum on here but I would recommend BumGenius all-in-ones one-sized - they're my basic workhorse nappy, easy to use, reliable, fit from birth to potty (more or less) and readily available secondhand (also they have just brought out v4 so you can get bargains on v3). I would get a few different types secondhand though and see what suits you - some people swear by two-parters (nappy plus waterproof wrap over the top) but I am an all-in-one obsessive myself.

I have heard the Chinese ebay ones are pretty good. You can generally get them cheaper secondhand though and less carbon footprint involved in the postage too :)

Clothnappytree.com is also a good place for chat and to buy secondhand (you can't buy them secondhand on ebay as they are classed as used underwear Hmm).

DitaVonCheese · 16/05/2011 12:40

Oh also Real Nappy Week starts today (hence the article I assume, didn't actually click the link Blush) so there are plenty of reductions at the moment :)

CanYouBeHappyAnyway · 16/05/2011 12:43

god, is that report still being touted as the "proof" that cloth nappies aren't green? Confused

my nappies (some new, some second hand) were used for my 2, then my SIL used them for DN, and now they are back with me again awaiting dc3 (maybe)

plus dd1 was late to toilet training (SN), so they were used by her for over 4 years (so really, that counts as 2 children Grin) - so 4 children and counting already...

I have never come across anyone who irons nappies - that's bonkers behaviour!

sleepywombat · 16/05/2011 12:46

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ilovemydogandMrObama · 16/05/2011 12:49

Ah, thanks dita. Didn't understand how/why this was news Hmm, but Real Nappy Week would make sense....

wednesday13 · 16/05/2011 12:57

I remember that report, I though it was inaccurate at the time. It was cheaper for us to use washable nappies and produced less waste (we have been on fortnightly bins for ages here and I had 2 in nappies for over a year).

I have to say , that I don't care whether or not the council spends money on promoting them or not. It's the parent's choice.

I think the campaigns were mainly aimed at waste minimisation because councils are rated on the amounts of refuse/recycling they collect. When they bring in pay-per-bin or something that will probably affect people's decisions to use throwaway items. Only look at petrol prices - the cost of something is a much bigger disincentive than airyfairy green issues.

Tolalola · 16/05/2011 12:58

Yeah, because parents have nothing better to do with a new baby...Hmm

MuddlingMackem · 16/05/2011 13:48

PinkIsMyFavouriteCrayon

for DC1 I used terry squares and plastic pants which worked brill for him, only had to get some Bummis wraps for when he grew too tall for the plastic pants. That combo didn't work for DC2 so I went with Wonderoos pocket nappies stuffed with a terry nappy. For overnights when dd was doing bigger wees I stuffed them with a terry nappy wrapped around the Wonderoos inserts and later on added a Bummi wrap over the whole lot.

Oh, and when they needed more absorbency during the day, I added a folded-in-half flannel on top of the terry nappy. Worked brilliantly. :)

Used flushable nappy liners for both kids and had two nappy buckets which I filled before washing as a full load was two buckets' worth.

I hated toilet training and having to use disposable pull-ups, but just couldn't justify the outlay on washable ones. :(

octopusinabox · 16/05/2011 13:53

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plupervert · 16/05/2011 13:56

LANDFILL.

octopusinabox · 16/05/2011 14:00

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octopusinabox · 16/05/2011 14:03

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mummysleepy · 16/05/2011 14:22

plus another thing to consider is that lots of us who use washable nappies also have washable wipes which reduces landfill and costs even more!

I am preparing to use our tots bots on DC3 (currently 38+5) which will reduce the impact even further.
I don't think many people pre-soak any more either.

I hate the idea of all those disposables going in the the bin and then into landfill where they will remain for over a hundred years!

plus washables are very cute!!

eastegg · 16/05/2011 14:38

Report sounds like nonsense to me, although haven't read it. Flies in the face of common sense (gosh that sounds a bit DM actually) to say that reusables aren't green - they've got to be a greener alternative surely. Anti reusable remarks always remind me of those people who have a go at vegetarians for wearing leather shoes; defensive bollocks.

I strongly suspect that people using disposables who suggest that all the extra washing evens things up do just as much washing as me (one child so far, 20 cloth nappies on the go, working out fine) if not more. As someone else pointed out, people on reusables are more likely to be minimising washing anyway. My SIL said when she had her first newborn she had the machine on twice a day, and I've never done that.