to ask if if it is reasonable to pay a builder before he starts

[Finallyspring]

Sorry, boring thread. Someone is coming to do some building work and has asked me to pay £720 for materials before he starts ( final price is £1,500. Is this reasonable ?

I've recently worked with some larger building companies (for work) and in the past with smaller outfits (for home). I think it's normal for both sizes to ask for upfront payment for part of the work - particularly for materials, but also if agreeing your work means they start to reserve people etc to it and thus potentially turn down other jobs for that time.

Get a receipt. Ask if they have a standard, simple contract you could sign together? (though probably email is ok). Ask now how they excpect to stage future payments. And don't pay any final amount until you are totally happy.

Depends on the builder to a certain extent. Obviously a large company is less likely to need money up front than a small sole trader.
My DP is Garden design and will usually ask for a fee upfront to cover some materials, not all builders merchants offer a months free credit or an account system. If he is recommended to you then I would pay him, getting a receipt for your payment. Final payment when you are happy at the end. get a fully itemised quote in order to avoid any trouble at the end.

It is normal practice to make an interim payment as it is called.

Ensure you do not pay the full amount until all the works are completed to your satisfaction - this includes completion of snagging list. I would suggest perhaps once work is complete, a payment of 50% of the balance, with the remaining half to be paid upon completion of agreed snagging list.

My other half is a sole trader and asks for material money up front. This is stated on the quote and he prefers payment via BACS. He does take cheques, but we do wait for them to clear first. He doesn't expect labour money until the job is finished. Materials do normally have a small mark up on them as we're in business to make a profit!

When the materials are delivered on to your property they then belong to you I would not pay until they were actually delivered.

I always get money for materials before getting them delivered to the site as once the materials are on somones property they can claim ownership and we've been shafted like that before.

My advise is to get it all in writing so you are both on the same page.

Ime customers are often suprised that want money for materials up front, but I have no way of checking if they are nice people.

This is a sole trader. Thanks for all the replies. I think I will go ahead and give him the money for materials. btw is it outdated to pay by cheque these days ?

Nope, it creates a paper trail. Might mean that you have to wait for it to clear before he orders materials though.

Can you not do a bank transfer?

We do take them but we wait for them to clear.
I would do a cash transfer. Easier and you can still trace where the money went.

yep my dad has his own building firm, he's been trading 35 years and has always asked for materials cost up front. so totally normal.

but having said that there are a lot of really dodgy ones out there so if you feel something isn't quite "right" i would go with your instincts.

My DH is a builder and he has never asked for any money upfront.

I would be very careful if I were you!

We've used a small local builder twice now, he invoiced after all work was completed. We were never asked to pay anything up front. As I understand it, he doesn't have to pay for materials up front either, accounts with builders' merchants give the builder between 30 and 90 days to pay.

For larger building works it can be normal to pay pat part-through the job (e.g. when signed off by architect or building control), but £1,500 is not in that category.

I would hesitate to pay anything in advance of work in progress. It would make me wonder if he's got cashflow problems.

If he is reputable he will have a credit acount with his local building supplies place and so won't need to pay up front. Always think that companies should hold enough money or have good enough credit not to have to ask for money upfront for things like this.

I´d be astounded if anyone asked for that when the total is 1500GBP.

If possible, I´d rather go & buy the stuff I needed myself, tbh.

depends if materials are normal builders merchants stuff or more specialised items that need to be ordered from somewhere they don't have a credit account. You can't get a credit account everywhere.

Thanks again for all the replies. Still not conclusive though ! Diddl, do you live in Germany by any chance ? Wish I could get a German builder here in London !

Yes, I do-was the lack of pound sign a giveaway?

"You can't get a credit account everywhere."

No, but you´d think a firm could cover such an amount tbh.

The reason I don't like it is that the builder is basically asking you to extend him credit by paying up front. Granted, some jobs require purchase of expensive installations, but other more general building jobs simply reqire a general supply of building materials, which I would expect any established builder to stock or source in regularly. I don't like the idea of paying up front for such jobs because it is the builder that is generally in business, not the customer, and as such the builder is best placed to bear the risks of business. Whereas the customer's only sanction is to withhold payment until satisfactory completion (most would not sue for breach of contract in the courts for small jobs). Hence requiring payment up front takes away the only real sanction available to the customer in the smaller job.

In larger jobs, I tend to source most of the materials myself and not use supply and fit.

my builder who i have used for years never asks for any money upfront but what we do is we order all supplies required through the builders merchant and it is delivered direct to us here and I settle up with them.

For little things along the way he buys them and includes receipts in the final bill (which usually turns up 3 months or so after works finished). The joys of livvng in a small town :)

I thought you weren't supposed to pay anything up front.

Personally, I would order direct and pay the merchant, and have it delivered to your house. I wouldnt give anyone cash up front trusting them to get materials. All to easy to do a bunk with your cash.

Traditionaly most builders worked on an obtaining credit basis. However since the whole housing slumps many builders merchants are now demanding bills are paid in full. Obviously a larger building firm might have more standing. But the way things are at the minute means a refusal if credit isnt really any indication of a builders reputation.

I've always paid for materials upfront and no one's run away get. Tend to use small local builders on recommendation, but not always in fact the best was one just through local ad

It's not unusual to be asked to pay for materials upfront, but I will never again allow a builder to source materials for me, or employ a builder who expects any money to "secure the booking".

The mark-up on materials is astronomical; I've since learned I could have saved thousands by sourcing it myself, and I don't have access to a so-called "trade discount".

I also have suspicions that builders and building merchants are in league to palm-off second quality and discontinued items for full price (and mark up on top).

And really, if you don't know how to manage cash flow, you've no business being self-employed.

Have you run a credit check on the builder you plan to use, Finallyspring?