to think helping a child change for PE should still be allowed!

[lisad123isasnuttyasaboxoffrogs]

schools gone nuts!
DD1 has Autism and part of that is that she struggles with certain clothing when getting changed. She cant pull her socks on very well, cant tie shoes but also cant lift dresses over her head.
So today sent her in her summer school dress and she had PE. She couldnt get her dress off, and asked teacher for help but he said he wasnt "allowed to help her"!
Had to get another 7/8 year old to help her :(

Its in a classroom full of pupils! what would be the rule if she had a physical disability?

Think things are going a bit mad when a teacher cant help a child and they are left to struggle

You are not being unreasonable, but I can also see the teachers side due to the PC world that we live in...

If she had a physical disability, then there would be a dedicated assistant for her I would have thought.

More than likely it is the fact that he is male, that he chose not to do this. YANBU but need to enquire/ensure that the school provide support in the fork of female staff to help her change.

This sounds terrible but my first thought when I read this was that you would be greatful for that rule if your child had gone to Holly and Jessicas school!

Redroxy wtf?

Since when did caretakers help children get undressed....?

ffs

Lisad, it certainly sounds nuts, but due to safeguarding, it is probably something the teacher is not allowed to help out with

Does the class have a TA who would be able to help? Are they aware of DD's need for help getting dressed/undressed?

If there isn't another adult present I can imagine he most definitely would not be allowed to help her out

Valpoll, I just meant that what popped into my head! Obviously caretakers don't do that! But the school choose who they employ, caretaker, teacher, ta, dinner lady etc... I'm not confident enough to take a chance!

She normally has a ta so not sure where she was today. I will have a word, otherwise she'll have to go in trousers andct shirt. I understand why, but think it's crazy.

So if your child had autism, as per the OP's child, what would you do then Red?

You're not confident to take a chance on what? I'm sorry...I am utterly baffled. A teacher is acting in loco parentis. They go through stringent enhanced CRB checks.

And if, through some utter failure of all the systems that are in place (including the fact that I'm pretty sure another responsible adult has to be present anyway - please do correct me if I'm wrong), do you honestly think that a teacher with alternative motives will be acting inappropriately in a setting where they are very likely to be seen by others, in a setting that probably has more stringent controls in regards to safeguarding children?

At the end of the day, it's a 7 yo asking for help to get undressed with her pinafore/uniform.

I'm a teacher, and I do think it's sad that this male teacher feels like he can't help out a little girl with her uniform for fear of reprisals. Unfortunately some people are quick to judge male teachers as 'perverse' if they try to help a child with their clothing. I remember a thread on here a few months ago by someone who was concerned that a male teacher had helped her daughter with her tights after PE. Sadly because of a few nutters people are more fearful that helpful adults actually have sinister motives.

Oh well, stringent enhanced crb checks!! Forgive me I take it all back. There is no way anything can happen to a child by a schoolworker after that, especially not a vunrable one! What was I thinking!! That could never happen!?! I'm not saying it's the right attitude to have but it doez happen! Also teachrs have to cover themselves too!

I have severe dyspraxia and I needed this sort of help until I was about 14 due to me not being able to do buttons/ties/zips very well- it was done by my LSA, but I did have a statement of SEN which included this.

I agree it is mad if the teacher was happy to help but was "banned" from doing so.

However I think many male teachers now actively avoid putting theselves in a position where even the most innocent of behaviour could be miscontrued and you only have to read some of the crazy comments on here to understand their position entirely. It then becomes a vicious circle: the majority of teachers don't help out innocently, therefore those that do are obviously perverts

God knows what the answer is.

oh what rubbish!!! I help with school swimming lessons andhelp children of both genders get changed! We are all CRB checked, and are never alone with the children.... its common sense surely?!

There is no "rule"

But with parents like redroxy int he world, I'm not surprised that the teacher didn;t want to help your daughter. It's stupid people like her that havemade these situations - not the 'safeguarding" rules, which are entirely measured and sensible.

Don't blame the government, or the school, or individual teachers - it's idiot parents who have created this situation.

'and are never alone with the children'
As a class teacher, you are often the only adult with the class.
I agree completely, if children needs help with buttons, lifting dresses over heads, tights or whatever, then they should get it without fuss.
But I am grateful for redroxy's post. Because it only takes one loon of a parent spreading gossip and making wild suggestions in the playground to change a climate of trust and co-operation to one of paranoid suspicion in an instant.
So the male teacher was being over-cautious and had no grounds at all for refusing to help your daughter. But imagine if redroxy had been her parent?
Why risk bringing down a shitstorm?

I don't think YABU bit I also understand why a male teacher may not want to help your child undress. Lots of children struggle to dress and undress, including my daughter, so when it is a PE day I always out her in trousers/ shorts and t-shirt. Teachers do not have time to help everyone out. Hopefully the ta will be back soon to help your daughter.

In a primary school, you should always have time to help everyone out with something as basic as this.

i teach reception and my class all help each other to get changed, why are you sad that another child helped her? In my experience most children are happy to help their friends.

The isnt a rule about helping with dressing but it is a teachers personal choice not to put themselves at risk of accusation, especially a male teacher with a 7/8 year old. I dont blame him but do think its sad.

I've seen lots of ridiculous threads on mumsnet where parents say they wouldnt want a male nursery worker or male childminder. No wonder with attitudes like these, a male teacher won't help.

Ive had the same problem with my DS7yo in school. He has Dyspraxia, at home I get him changed/do buttons etc

At school, my son up until last year was always in the same class as my nephew, who would always help my DS

This year however, DS and nephew was separated So its a struggle for him

Before christmas DS came home from swimming, no socks on, no t-shirt or pants, walked back to the school like this, in snow . With his coat unzipped [can not do zips]. Seems no one noticed

My son is now struggling twice a week with this

Sorry just to clarify, DS had no t-shirt on, but had managed to put his V neck school jumper on,

You need to go in and insist that his needs are met. Does he have an IEP?
Not helping him with basic tasks that require skills he doesn't have in abundance is wrong, and all staff need to be aware that they have a duty of care.
I'm teaching Y6, a couple of mine still have issues with buttons and shoelaces, so they get help. In the same way that someone who finds reading or maths tricky would get appropriate support.

If the male teacher couldn't help and the TA wasn't there why didn't he ask someone else to step in or straight away ask another more dextrous child to help your dd so it didn't become an issue? I think he did mismanage it; he had three choices to help, to get another femal adult to help, to get a child to help - all straight away - he did neither and its the summer term so he ought by now to know the child and what she can manage and what was required. The comments above from Redoxy are nutty, does she not realise the very very small percentage of people who have actually been caught for offences against children. Nothing in my opinion replaces common sense and that little feeling in the pit of ones stomach that something is wrong and I'm an HR manager in education.

Redroxy would you feel the same if it was a female teacher and make pupil. I'm sensible enough to weigh up the risk of teacher taking off her dress for PE in a class full of pupils
dd1 knows about protective behaviours as we have done this with both our girls from a young age.
I don't mind that another child helped but she did, she feels embarassed enough that she can't do certain things as it is :(

Of course your daughter should have been helped. Agree it won't have been a rule.

But most men I know that work with primary school children are worried about being wrongly accused of interfering or being physically inappropriate with a child. And I can see this situation could have blown up if he helped.

For example enother child goes home and says sir helped x get her dress off today. OTT parent responds - what is he doing helping a 7 year old child! She is old enough to do it herself. Must be dodgy.

Now of course nothing official would come of something like this. But once some nutty parent starts a rumour that a male teacher was physically inappropriate, his life would become very difficult. Children of OTT parents could make comments to him that they over heard, parents could start to scrutinise everything he does, etc.

So yes I think your child should have been helped. But there really are some nutty parents out there so I do understand him refusing to.