To not understand why 'miracles' are proof that God exists?

[FlamingoBingo]

I just watched this video, and it's all lovely and incredible and how amazing for the family. But why do they say it's because of God? How does that explain all the babies that die? All the crap that happens to all the other people who love him and pray to him and have faith in him?

Surely, if he's real, either he's good to people, or he's shit. Can you imagine parenting your own kids like that?

Being horrible to them most of the time, and then bestowing something wonderful on them, so you can say 'trust in me, and endure the crap, and you'll be rewarded with a little treat now and then'.

Read Freud's "Civilization and its Discontents" for a succinct appraisal of the "need" for such paternalistic shite.

I don't have much time for the coked-up old git on much, but here he's spot on. Love to quote but have packed up all me books for a move.

Hmm...not sure I'm so interested I'd want to bother reading Freud!

depends entirely on how you define "miracle". The classic definition from Hume (who didn't believe in them) was an act of God that broke the laws of nature. The example you are citing is a looser definition of a fortunate or happy coincidence or outcome that is seen by some as a miracle. Both raise the issue of God's seeming arbitrariness and whether his occasional interference is incompatible with the idea of free will. The traditional answer was that God works in mysterious ways and mere mortals shouldn't attempt to understand or question it but that is a generally unpopular answer in the modern day.

Belief in god owes nothing to rationality and everything to faith. If someone wants to belive god exists then they will seek 'evidence' such as miracles to support that faith. It's the same with all superstitions and lucky charms. A good friend of mine fervently believes in the powers of mediums. Every time her favourite medium makes a good call this is proof to my friend that she has supernatural powers. No amount of gentle reminders that the medium often gets it completely wrong persuades her otherwise.

OP I totally agree. Seems people want it both ways. If a wonderful thing happens, it is God, if something horrific happens, it's not. I know people like to look for reasons as to why we're here and I am in wonder too, but I don't believe in a God as such. I read a great article that said life on earth is not that amazing. In all the space in the universe, it would be more astonishing if there was no life anywhere, it just so happens that we live in this tiny place where life flourishes.

I would say EVERYTHING is a sort of miracle. We could not create a universe

I dont see why individual things are dubbed miracle/ Often things which are not that special

Beckhams 75 yard lobbed goal...A cricketer hitting six sixes in an over.

Now creating a universe that seems miraculous...regardless of religious or scientific angle/

People make up shit to validate their ideas.

discobeaver

Yes some people do "make up shit to validate their ideas"

Einstein said "God does not roll dice."

But does he do the National Lottery, or back horses?

neither cos he doesn't exist

Anyway I don't he would back horses because racing is cruel and horses are gods creatures ( assuming he did exist ) and he wouldn't want them deliberately harmed for entertainment.
And the lottery is presented by Dale Winton, he is way too orange to be watched by God.

If evolution is the real deal (Not everyone agrees it is,) then a God may come at the end rather than the beginning.

That's kind of the Buddhist philosophy isn't it? Keep evolving until you reach nirvana. Although I do have a problem with the logical but harsh view that disabilities are payback for past lives crimes.

Depends on your definition of God, and your definition of miracles. on comparing God to a parent, it's like the way you have to let your children get on with their lives and make their own mistakes to an extent, so bad things do happen. Personally I equate God to love - I don't see him as a large man sitting on a cloud - I see it as a general force for good in the world.

If something "good" happens that seems to be "beyond reason" it is often attributed to God as a miracle. My interpretation is that we should take these occurrences as a sign to have hope - isn't it true that all the news these days seems to be about natural disasters, war and cruelty of some kind?

I like debates like this although I rarely win them, please feel free to tear my arguments to shreds!

"No miracle has ever taken place under conditions which science can accept. Experience shows, without exception, that miracles occur only in times and in countries in which miracles are believed in, and in the presence of persons who are disposed to believe them."
[Ernest Renan (1823-1892), French historian, The Life of Jesus (1863), from James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief]