to be very pissed off that only 35% of people bothered to vote in my borough

[southeastastra]

arse, if some had got off their arses we could have had such a fairer representation :(

not that we know who has won yet but ykwim

35% !!! I would be pissed off as well.
Whats the betting that the other 65% do all the moaning.

Turn out for a local is usually about 30%.

Partly because it seems so unimportant.
Partly because the polling stations are so inaccessible. (About to make a complaint about lack of disabled access at mine. I saw a woman TRY to walk the distance around the school site to the polling station but have to give up and go home because she couldn't make it and there was no-one to help. Not exactly democracy at its best.)

2 things I say to people: Women died to give you the Vote, and Don't Vote, Can't Moan.

people get what they deserve - if they dont vote, i guess they are happy to leave the decision up to others

Women died to give us the choice of whether to vote or not. If all the politicians are corrupt liars, we don't have to vote for them if we find them all to be a disgrace.

It's not just women who are not exercising their right to vote, surely? I'm not sure I understand the point about women dying to give the right to vote when low turnout and apathy about voting isn't confined to women? Or is it? (I've not seen any stats)

YANBU it would be a far better reform to our electoral system to make it compulsory to vote rather than the faff over AV. There's a postal vote option & I don't mind if people turned up & then spoiled their paper as a protest, at least no one could claim to be disenfranchised.

It was 17% turn out in an area near here last time

YABU.

Sounds like you've got a classic case of sour grapes, even if more people had shown up doesn't mean they'd have voted the way you wanted them to!

I don't understand that either. greencaveman and SQ are right, that argument is pointless. Women have to vote because they had to fight for it. Men, pah, easy come easy go eh?

Living in a democracy means you have the right to decide whether or not to vote.

Mum's a councillor in one of the most deprived wards in her city... turnout there was 25% yesterday (she wasn't up for election this time round but I was looking out for the ward results to see how secure her position was looking - despite being an ardent supporter of "the other side" to her mob).

was just about to post the same bloodymary

'Women died to give you the vote.'

This annoys me hugely because it is one of those stupid statements people make that is just so untrue and actually unfair to the thousands and thousands of men and women who campaigned at considerable danger to themselves to win the vote. So, sorry about the rant but this gets trotted out every time voting is discussed so here goes:

1. As far as I am aware, only one woman directly died trying to win the vote in England: Emily Wilding Davison. Whether she intended to kill herself or not is debateable, she probably just didn't care either way. She ran out infront of the King's horse in the Derby. She got publicity, but none of it good. Newspapers of the time showed considerably more concern for the welfare of the horse and jockey. Actions like hers didn't help win the vote - they just gave the men in charge a good reason not to grant women the vote. The only other who I know about who died as a result of suffrage actions was Lady Constance Lytton who may have died early as a result of violent force-feeding when she was in prison for suffrage demonstrations. She gave a false name in prison so that she was treated like a commoner, not a lady with rich and powerful connections, which seems quite brave.

1. What really won the vote was the millions of men who died on the western front. They won an extension of voting to working class men and women who were over 30 and married or owned property. The government feared an armed revolution if these men were not given the vote, and they considered it ethically necessary after WW1 to give all men the vote.

1. Women campaigned for equality with men, not really for the vote. Women were only 10 years behind working class men in getting the vote in England. Many made it their life's work. Many sacrificed to gain equality - being treated as social outcasts, being estranged from their families, losing custody of children, being imprisoned and physically ill-treated.

1. The death of millions of men helped make us a democracy. Men and now women die (whether we support those wars or not) because they believe they are keeping us a democracy. Yes, people should have more respect for that, but saying 'Women died to give you the vote' so you must vote is rubbish.

I'm not all that hot on my history but the photographs I've seen and the stories I've read about women gaining the vote seem to depict women marching / fighting / chaining themselves to railings and things.

I'm unconvinced by this argument that women have men to thank for the vote? That men were the ones out on the streets fighting for women's right to vote? Are there any articles or links that I can read about it? The ones I have seen all show pics of women marching.

I'm embarassed to say I didn't vote

I usually do but we moved house recently and aren't yet on the voters register here.

Should have got round to it but life has been manic lately and it just slipped my mind.

That's intetresting vj32, thanks.

it was 47-74% up here in Newcastle.

We love a good excuse to get out, chat then head for the pub and put the word to rights

Absolutely 100% what vj32 said. I think people would be surprised to learn how little the suffragetes did to get the vote. There were So many other factors, those mentioned and women entering the work place during the war. People shouldn't throw around accusations like that unless they're informed.

Also I believe freedom means the right not to vote if you don't want to. Furthermore I have never heard anyone moan about the situTion av aims to rectify so somehow I think those 60% will not be moaning.

YANBU to be disgusted but YABU if you are surprised. I too suspect the ones who didn't vote are most likely to complain. Of course the result could have been the same if everyone turned out but at least you would know it was the choice of the electorate rather than the choice of those who could be bothered.

We are very lucky to have the vote in this country. Its not perfect but its much preferable to a dictatorship. Is that really what people want?

Women died to give you the vote is true, and saying 'oh well there were only two and one of them might not have meant to' doesn't stop it being so.

There were many factors. That is fairly obvious. The actions of women campaigners were hugely important. I agree that women dying isn't a big factor (it's not like they died in their thousands, though they did march in their thousands) but that is not the same as saying it didn't happen.

Try doing a little reading vj32.

Peterloo Massacre

Women have died.