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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want my son to go to this school

27 replies

lecce · 05/05/2011 14:24

I really hesitate to post this here because it could go horribly wrong and give the wrong impression of me, but I am so desperate for advice that I am posting here simply because it gets the most traffic. Dh and I have discussed this until we are blue in the face and have ended up arguing and I just need some outside opinions.

Ds4 has been offered our 5th, and then the next day, 4th choices of primary school and we have until tomorrow to make our decision. We live in a inner-city, culturally diverse area, which we love. We had thought that the primary schools would reflect this but they don't really.

Our 5th choice school has 92% of the intake from other nationalities, two thirds of whom are new to learning English. It is the language issue that is my concern. I am so afraid that ds will not make friends. The school has a good OFSTED but all the most positive comments are about what is provided for those children who are learning English.

We have visited twice, it has a lovely atmosphere and they have a creative curriculum but the head admitted to me that in some years, there are only 2 - 3 confident speakers of English, meaning that in each class there may be only one or two such children. I really don't see how ds is going to thrive if those around him can't communicate.

The school does a lot to promote racial harmony and the head tells me the children mix great in school but she admitted that the majority of families do not encourage their children to mix with other nationalities outside of school.

This is especially important to us because ds has not attended pre-school, for various reasons, and we don't know local people with similarly aged dc ourselves. We have recently started meeting up with one girl regularly, who we met in the park, but that's it; so we were relying on school for ds to form friendships but it just seems it's not going to happen in that school.

My main issue with the other school is that it is in the process of becoming an academy, had I known that I doubt we would have even put it down as I am really against the idea. It will now be run by the same people who run the very poor secondary academy. I really don't want to send him there.

It is an 'ok' school, it is more socially mixed that the other one but does not seem to have such a creative approach to the curriculum.

I would really welcome any advice at all, I just want him to be happy and not to go to a academy but we have to put one of them down! What would you do?

OP posts:
pingu2209 · 05/05/2011 14:30

I really really feel for you. What a dreadful choice of options. I would personally rather go to the school where my child can communicate with more pupils. I would then get on the waiting list for each of my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice schools and phone each week to see if a place has come up.

It will not damage your child to move school to a better school even if it is in the middle of year 1.

icooksocks · 05/05/2011 14:32

What pingu said. Take the school where you feel he'll be happier and go on the waiting list for your preferred school/s.

winnybella · 05/05/2011 14:34

I think I would want to know whether in the first school there are kids from many different nationalities iyswim- so that your DS wouldn't feel like an outsider. If it's a mixture, it should be ok, imo.

AMumInScotland · 05/05/2011 14:35

FWIW children of 4 or 5 can often pick up languages very quickly, so it may well be that the other children in his class will be able to communicate adequately in English in a quite short time. And, children can get along ok together even when they don't speak the same language - if you take them abroad at this age, they'll play happily with children from all over.

So don't despair of the school immediately.

thisisyesterday · 05/05/2011 14:37

i would send him to the school and go on a waiting list for your preferred choice

or, if he is not yet 5 then just don't send him yet???? and hope a place at a different school comes up before then?
could you HE until he has a place at a school you'd prefer?

i think that the children will learn English really, really quickly, and children will still play and make friends even if they don't speak the same language.

cantspel · 05/05/2011 14:38

The fact that they dont tend to mix out of school would worry me more than the fact that they didn't speak english. For that reason i would go for the second school and get on the waiting lists for the other 3 preferred schools.

StillSquiffy · 05/05/2011 14:40

I'd put him in wherever he will get a good education, book him up for every after school activity I can think of, and I might think of moving.

My DS's best friend couldn't speak a word of English when he started school but know he is fluent, so it's not certain that your DS will have issues, but the not mixing culturaly comment would concern me. I'd have a look at rugby clubs, scouts, footie clubs, tennis clubs, stagecoach, etc to widen his social circle

beldaran81 · 05/05/2011 14:41

I went to two primary schools with a similar mix you describe, my parents removed me from the first because of a racist teacher who targeted me, I loved the second. The diversity left such me a desire to get a similar broad outlook for my own children.

Given the academy thing with the 4th choice I would probably send to the one with curriculum I felt fit best with my child while being on the waiting list for my 1st/2nd choices.

FabbyChic · 05/05/2011 14:43

I wouldn't send my son to a school whereby the majority did not speak english, whilst they are teaching the majority english other subjects will suffer.

IndigoBell · 05/05/2011 14:43

I wouldn't object to a school because it's an academy. Out of all the things about a school it is the least important. It is the staff who run the school, and most especially the HT, that is important.

It is possible that in a few months years all 5 schools become academies..... Or indedeed all schools in your LEA.

verybored · 05/05/2011 14:44

Do you know if the other children mainly all have the same language as their first language, or is there more of a mix? If they all spoke the same language I would be more worried about your DS feeling left out. But if it's a mix of different languages, I think it would be less of a problem.

Do you know where you are on the waiting lists for the other 3 schools? Could you accept this place but reasonably have a chance of being offered on of the others?

pingu2209 · 05/05/2011 14:53

I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but I can't understand why parents live in areas where they know there is a big risk that their children will be in a school that they would be horrified they attended.

Why do people continue to live in those areas when their children are at the age where you select schools? Even renting a smaller property is better surely?

I appreciate you can 'think' a school is good, but when there is it a bullying nasty school etc.

However, on the whole, I personally do not know ANY british (born, bred, speak English etc) parents who would want their child to attend a school where a huge percentage of children come from very different cultures and do not speak English.

That said, I personally do not know ANY british (born, bred, speak English) parents who would want their child to attend a school that is 'failing' and gets rubbish results and is situated in a poor area!

I know this is racist, but that is life. I don't automatically hate people from other races. However, if the school location affects my child's education, then I would rather my children did not mix so would move areas.

CheeseMeisterGeneral · 05/05/2011 14:54

I too can sympathise with your concerns. My DD has been offered a place at a school we did not show as a preference which deals with 35+ different languages, and many of the children come to school with no english speaking experience.

Communication, friendships and amount of resources available are all issues l have concerns about regarding my child.

We have chosen to not accept our place offered and are on the waiting list for our first choice, were her older sibling attends, (so we have logistics issues anyway with two schools).

l will home ed until xmas/easter and then if no movement consider private pre-prep as a last resort. My DD is a very late summer born though.

harrietthespook · 05/05/2011 14:57

Young children do pick up a new language easily generally speaking. I would be a lot more concerned if you were talking about a secondary school situation although I can see it doesn't feel ideal.

In your shoes, I would be trying to find out more about the sort of adjustments they have to make to lesson plans with so many non native speakers to get a feel for whether your dc's learning would really be limited. Can you visit the school again and have the teachers talk you through a typical day?

Insomnia11 · 05/05/2011 14:59

pingu - I imagine it's because family live nearby so they want to stay in the area because they are well supported there, or can't afford to live in an area with good schools, or have to live where they are allocated a council house.

CheeseMeisterGeneral · 05/05/2011 14:59

Pingu - crossed posts. I do not live strictly within the catchment area of the school l was offered. I live 0.4 miles from a church school which my first child attends, the next three are all 2 miles away at least. Two of these were my 2nd and 3rd choices.

I got none of my choices, the first because the church school prioritises church going above siblings already there, and the second and third because its a high birth year and l live too far away from catchment cut off. So all they had left was the school that many in my town would not choose.

FreudianSlipOnACrown · 05/05/2011 15:05

Can you tell us why you didn't send him to preschool? Are you open to the idea of homeschooling at least on a temporary basis?

Original poster
lecce · 05/05/2011 15:05

There are are 32 languages spoken there, although about 50% of the school are from one particular group. Tbh, I think he would be fine in school but that there would be very limited opportunities for him to socialise outside school. Given the fact that he doesn't have friends now, this really concerns me.

We are not really in a position to HE and, again, the social aspect would particularly concern me.

Beldaran I do think it is a lovely school and we did want him to go to one that would celebrate diversity. I just wish we knew lots of people nearby, then we wouldn't have to worry about the social side so much.

We would certainly consider moving, we nearly did last year but it fell through, we hope to move within a couple of years but I really want him to get off to a good start and start making some friends!

We are 6th on the waiting list for our third choice, so I suppose there is hope there - there is a lot of movement in the area.

Thanks very much for your replies.

OP posts:
Original poster
lecce · 05/05/2011 15:11

He was at pre-school but he did not seem to be mixing well with the other children, whenever we picked him up he seemed isolated and he always said he didn't want to go. The teacher described him as 'quiet' and 'an obvserver' but in our experience, from going to parks etc he always seems very outgoing and eager to join in with children he'd never met before. We just had a bad feeling about it and took him out. However, ever since I have worried about the friends issue.

Dh is sahd, goes to playground pretty much every day, has made friends with the girl and her mum I mentioned, but I still feel we are a bit isolated. For this reason, I really want him to start school.

We did try and move last year, but if you can't sell your house, what can you do?

OP posts:
beldaran81 · 05/05/2011 15:12

Is there any out of school activities he mihgt enjoy locally? Something that would encourage him to interact with others?

harrietthespook · 05/05/2011 15:15

wondering if you're near us in E London...

jeanvaljean · 05/05/2011 15:15

Lecce, you haven't said what your DH feels about this?

Personally I'm with the posters who say home schooling until you find a better option. I would never send my child to a school with such a large number of non-English speakers and can only imagine what a horrible position you are in. Aside from the making friends issue, the teachers will be disproportionately devoted to teaching pupils English. It just not good enough.

Original poster
lecce · 05/05/2011 15:27

Dh shares my concerns, he probably leans towards the school with a high proportion of non-English speakers. As the sahp, it would be he who would have responsibility for HE and we have a demanding nearly- 2-yr-old as well. Tbh, I don't think it's for us, not least because of the social aspect.

We have just enrolled the dc in gymnastics, so hopefully might meet some people there.

Not in London - Notts.

OP posts:
Ginabraz · 05/05/2011 15:28

I'd put him in the 4th choice and then wait list him for the others. It is a terrible choice that you have to make. I haven't even made any admissions for my DS (4 end of this year) as I have made school years my cut off to living in London as I don't like the education choices available. Hopefully we can then move back to my native Australia.

gkys · 05/05/2011 15:34

OP you are DNBU , am assuming you have appealed, good luck, i hope you get into your preferred school, i would bide my time, although it may mean dc not starting school in september