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AIBU?

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Original poster

Police caution.

28 replies

catnao · 03/05/2011 00:16

I thought they always showed up on a CRB, as I got one when a louche young woman, and when I did my teacher training was told this was the case. Three CRB checks later, for my three teaching jobs, and having declared said caution, and in the cautions and misdemeanours bit "none recorded".

Because of this, last CRB I asked my head, and he said to cross the box saying "no" to "do you have any etc". Then got a letter to school and phone call asking me to prove my identity via finger prints, as someone with my name and details had come up on the system. Spoke to a woman at CRB, explained circs of my (in my view unjustified arrest, after which I made a complaint about an officer with the Met). She basically confirmed that yes, what I had told her tallied with her screen.

Then, about a fortnight later, my new CRB arrived. "None recorded". What's going on???

OP posts:
Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:20

Do I have a caution, or not??

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 03/05/2011 00:22

how old were you when you got the caution?

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:23
OP posts:
LDNmummy · 03/05/2011 00:24

Cautions are wiped off your record after a few years, I can't remember how many years exactly but 5 or less I'm sure. I had a couple when I was younger for silly things I did as a teenager and I recieved a letter for one saying it had been taken off my record a few years later. I did not recieve a letter for the other but assume they sent it to an old address.

ddubsgirl · 03/05/2011 00:24

i think they are wiped off after so many years,not 100% tho

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:25

I was told that, unlike convictions, cautions can never be wiped as they are not convictions, therefore cannot be "spent"?

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 03/05/2011 00:25

are you sure you have a caution as such and not a reprimand of some other sort?

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:31

Well. I don't know. Circs were : I was arrested as part of a demonstration. I was arrested for being "drunk and disorderly". I had not had a drop of alcohol, but I did tell a police woman to piss off (not proud).Was then kept in cell overnight, and had to give finger prints and DNA swab. Police doctor was called, as at the time I had a broken arm, which said police officer decided to pull to keep me with her.

In the morning, was told to "Accept caution - easier than going to court". Which I THOUGHT I did.

I don't get how it's "none recorded" , BUT the one and only time I crossed the "no" box (6 months ago), this happened?

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 03/05/2011 00:33

really dont know then - i think i would give them a call and ask exactly what you do have, at least then you will know for sure.

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:36

In one sense, it doesn't matter, as (again) have clear CRB! But I have just volunteered to be a Brownie leader, wwhich requires yet another CRB (ridiculous - nearly all of the kids in Brownies I teach or have taught!) and don't know what to cross!

OP posts:
Thingsfallapart · 03/05/2011 00:39

I thought nothing was 'wiped' from the PNC, an enhanced check should always show everything including cautions.
In saying that I have come across a few cases where convictions (a lot more serious than your caution) have not come up. I don't think the system works as well as it should.

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:41

Oh well. If the Brownies want me, they'll have to accept me with the caution, if it appears, which it never has, until now, and then it didn't after I confirmed that that incident was indeed me! My complaint was upheld - would that have any bearing? You have to pay to see your record (I've enquired).

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 03/05/2011 00:43

i dont think anything is wiped from pnc. its all there, just may not be current. i am wondering it it was a caution or something else. a simple caution would show on CRB.

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 00:45

Dunno. I think I will just say I have got a caution this time, even though I don't seem to have, as crossing "no" last time resulted in hassle/delay trying to work out if I was indeed myself!

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 03/05/2011 00:50

Well, here's a nit of an inconclusive answer from the Police's crappy new website:

Cautions are now covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 so will become spent immediately (apart from conditional cautions which will become spent after 3 months). This means that if you are asked on an application form if you have a caution you can reply 'no'. For conditional cautions it would be after 3 months since the caution was issued, up until that time you would have to reply 'yes'.

This applies retrospectively so applies to anyone who has ever had a caution, irrelevant of when it was given.

If the application form says that the post is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 then the caution must be disclosed, no matter how long ago it was given.

However, this does not mean that it will not be disclosed on a CRB check. A caution may be disclosed for some years if it is deemed relevant to the reason for the check. Dishonesty offences (theft, shoplifting, fraud etc) tend to be disclosed for a longer period of time because of the nature of the offence. It is for the Chief Officer in each force to decide if a caution or other information will be disclosed.

Cautions will always remain on a person's record.

m.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q562.htm?viewsinglecontentelementid=21459

It looks as if you're within your rights to say "No" but the caution may be disclosed anyway.

LDNmummy · 03/05/2011 01:22

Had a look on google (as always Grin ) and now I get the difference. The caution is 'spent' within a 5 year period but never fully wiped off record as it were. Interesting thread, will have to keep this info in mind for the future.

Morloth · 03/05/2011 04:23

Perhaps it has to do with relevance?

I can't imagine being a bit gobby to a police officer years ago has very much relevance to a CRB for working with brownies.

Have no idea how it actually works but presumably there is a 'incident number' for each offence and perhaps they don't search for those numbers when doing a CRB for working with children?

ceres · 03/05/2011 07:33

if you work with children you need an enhanced CRB and even 'spent' convictions need to be declared.

it's this bit:
"If the application form says that the post is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 then the caution must be disclosed, no matter how long ago it was given."

your caution is not relevant to your position so that is why it isn't appearing on your CRB clearance.

TandB · 03/05/2011 08:57

The caution has clearly not been considered as requiring disclosure. It is still on the police national computer and will always be accessible for certain purposes - for example if you were to be arrested in the future.

psiloveyou · 03/05/2011 09:02

We have to have enhanced CRB checks. My dd caution from 8 years ago always shows.
A neighbour also needs to have an enhanced as like us his ds is a foster carer. His CRB showed 39 offences dating back from when he was 9 years old. He is in his 60s now.
I would have thought being a teacher yours would be enhanced but maybe this is where the difference is.

gkys · 03/05/2011 09:04

i think it goes like this, if you declare anything and everything on the form filling then its checked out, for example your caution was upheld and so is on your record, if you check the no box this will show up on your record, if you check yes and give details it will show up but they are expecting it, hope this helps

SoupDragon · 03/05/2011 09:07

Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of this.

Could it be that the caution does not show up on the actual CRB report but does show up on the police system when they run the check, thus flagging up a discrepancy when you said you didn't have any. I presume you should answer that yes, you did have some but it won't show up on the report as it is "spent"

NinkyNonker · 03/05/2011 09:10

I think cautions get wiped when you turn 18, otherwise they go after 5 years. Unless you have an enhanced disclosure crb as you would for teaching? Really not sure.

MillyR · 03/05/2011 09:14

I think the way the system works is absurd. A person with a criminal record ought to be able to establish with the police or some other organisation if their criminal record is something that the police feels needs to be disclosed or not. If the police do not feel it needs to be disclosed, then the person should not have to inform their employer of that criminal record when filling in CRB forms.

As it stands, many people like the OP have accepted a caution, and then the punishment for that caution has completely changed from what the person agreed to at the time, because the OP is being punished through having to inform employers and that could have an impact on her job. Many people will have accepted cautions in their youth and as children on the basis that they were told it would not remain on their record. I don't think they should have been able to create a retrospective law like this, and as they have done, deciding what is and is not disclosed should be sorted out between the individual and the police, without involving the employer.

Original poster
catnao · 03/05/2011 13:32

Thanks for all replies - I am assumig then, as it seems the most logical from what people are saying, that the caution exists on the police computer, but is not considered relevant, so not disclosed on form.

And I agree with MillyR completely - if the caution is not being deemed relevant and the forms always come back with "none recorded" (which I am glad about!), why should I have to tell my employers about this minor incident 9 years ago?

OP posts: