Unreasonable to make a complaint against this woman?

[kelly2525]

Will try (and probably fail) to keep this as short as I can.

13 weeks ago I had a c section after being induced 3 days earlier, the doctors and midwives (who were brilliant) knew my baby was pooing in me on day 2 cos it was coming out of me, the midwives knew I needed a section, but the doctor kept trying to make me contract and dilate with tablets and a drip, it wasnt happening, after 3 days I was 1cm and eventually when the baby was getting stressed, they decided he should come out.

So, they do the section and my baby is covered in shit from head to toe, he was green, and they said he was the dirtiest baby they`d ever seen.

Five days later the community midwife comes to see me, takes one look at me and phones an ambulance, I had e.coli and streptococcus, which results in two operations to cut out all the infected flesh in my belly, 2 blood transfusions, so many collapsed veins that I had to have a line stitched into my neck and 18 tablets a day plus one daily injection to stop me getting a blood clot, and 6 weeks hooked up to a machine that drained the shit out of my gut.

I was in hospital for 12 days, while my baby was looked after by my 61 year old mother who was also trying to fit her job around being "a mother" to a newborn.

Last week I saw my surgeon again, as my wound still hasnt completely healed and she asked a health care assistant to take some blood from me, this woman was hovering in the background so heard the doctor going through all the shit thats happened since I had the baby.

So doctor leaves the room, and this woman tells me Im lucky to have my baby, cos as she put it " we get girls in here that have lost theirs" and when I said Im just finding it hard to forget what a nightmare the last 3 months have been, and not being with my baby while i was in hospital, watching him being taken away every evening, waking up and him not being there, and then not being able to pick him up for weeks cos I was attatched to and carrying around my venturi pump, she said, "the mothers of babies in special care can`t pick their babies up either" and suggested I get out for a walk in the sunshine to make me feel better.

Now, I cant imagine anything worse than losing a baby, and yes I am lucky mine is here, and happy and healthy, but does that mean I shouldnt feel a bit fucked off with the experience Ive had? Ive still got a small open wound that splits open if I lift anything to heavy, and bleeds when I clean it.

She just seemed at best, dismissive, and at worst, argumentative, and Im tempted to call my surgeon, (who has given me her number and told me to call her anytime if I want to speak to her again or if I need anything) and complain.

So, would you put up and shut up or not?

YANBU - I think you should raise the issue with the nurse/matron in charge of the clinic (A polite letter will do).

The lady's conduct was unacceptable and insensitive and she needs to be spoken to and given some further training (at least). I would certainly have wanted to know if a HCA on my team was behaving like this(former HCP).

The issue of the horrible time you had giving birth is a separate one though...

As others have said, when you feel stronger it would be worthwhile taking independent legal advice about what happened.

If you are struggling to cope with your memories/feelings please seek help from your GP or HV, you have been through an awful experience.

I hope you're feeling physically much much better and that you can enjoy the summer with your lovely new baby xxxxx

Glad someone has linked to Sheila Kitzinger's site. You could also try the Patients' Association who will guide you through the NHS complaints system. You have every right to be very angry indeed at the way you and your baby were treated - it is disgraceful, and dangerous.

But agree you have to think about what you would like to achieve - an apology? An investigation with disciplinary action and assurance that no other woman and baby will be treated in this way? Financial compensation for your injuries and distress? (Sadly sometimes suing hospitals is the only way to make them sit up and take notice.)

Some hospitals have midwives who can offer you a debrief after a traumatic birth. But check out Kitzinger's site first.

Btw, I complained about an aspect of ds's birth and got a full apology and an explanation of what action they had taken to ensure it didn't happen again and the midwife changed her practice. That was a satisfactory outcome for me (they knew full well I could have sued or even pressed charges but I didn't want that).

You poor thing, you have been through a horrific time. The HCA seems to have gone way beyond her job description, I can understand why you are so unhappy about what she said, let alone having her ask to see your stomach.

You could mention it to your surgeon, but I'm not sure she will be able to do anything. However, you could write a note to the ward sister or charge nurse detailing everything she said, especially her inappropriate request to examine your stomach; they do have the power to explain about the boundaries she should comply with, or even send her for training so that she understands her role.

Agree with ratspeaker
and I hope the insentive bitch never has the nerve to complain about a headache, or appendix pain or anything like that - other people have it a lot worse after all.

Fuck! You are both lucky to be alive, I think you have beendealt with appallingly. I agree that the surgeon has given you her number to appease you because she knows there has been a fuck-up, getting anyone to admit to that may prove tricky though.

I would write a list of all of the things that went wrong/were badly handled for you and what you would like to happen then put it in a drawer. In a few weeks (when you are physically stronger) have another look at it. If you feel the same, start a formal procedure (I don't think phoning the surgeon will help - she just wants to watch her own back). Don't be put off if you get knocked back, just keep going until you are satisfied with the outcome.

FWIW DS2 was in intensive care (in a different hospital from me) then in Special Care. It was horrible but I can't imagine that it was any worse or better than having to get your mother to look after your baby while you are seriously ill. You've clearly been through hell and that needs to be acknowledged at the very least.

I wish you luck, and I hope you recover soon and finally get to enjoy your baby.

Complain about all of it!

I am one of those mothers who have lost their babies, one to stillbirth and another to prematurity,both in the space of eleven months, but I certainly don't think that my losses have taken away your right to be upset at the way you were treated. Or your right to tell your doctor how ill you have been and how you feel now.

It doesn't even sound like you were complaining before, despite what sounds like a complete set of cock-ups and neglect towards you and your baby. I assume that since you were at a follow up appointment to discuss your health, telling the doctor everything you went through and how you feel now was the point of the appointment. It's not like you were moaning, the doctor needs to know how you felt then and how you feel now to help and treat you.

The way they left you and your baby like that is shocking. You and/or your baby could have died because of the way you were treated and neglected. This health care assistant should understand that.

You've been through a horrific experience, been incredibly ill and at no point should anyone suggest that it doesn't matter because at least you have a healthy baby. Or imply that because you still need treatment and are discussing that treatment with your doctor that you are complaining and just need to get outside for a bit of fresh air.

These people get away with it because people don't complain about them. If you think this will help you or someone else then tell your surgeon exactly what was said or put in a complaint through PALS.

FYI I wrote to the head of the hospital (Chairman of the board), I didnt bother with starting lower down. go straight to the top and you are more likely to end up speaking to someone with the authority to actually do something.

I would complain...you will feel much better for it.

Although you will need alot of time to get over your experience and you will probably have flash backs for years to come you will at least feel empowered when you remember that although you went through it and it sounds to me that you should have had your c section much earlier you did not allow this woman to allow you to feel as though you have no right to feel like you do!
You will continue to feel angry until you do complain and then at least you can feel as though you can begin to heal and recover.
This woman needs to be told or she will move onto her next victim.
Good luck to you xx

Kelly

I won't bore you with my birth story, but it sounds very similar - one of the 1% unlucky enough to get an infection etc...

I didn't sue, and I didn't complain, mainly because all I cared about when I was finally better was to just hold my baby and look after her myself for the first time. But one year on, at my DD's first birthday this weekend, and with the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure whether I did the right thing.

How on earth will people learn lessons if everyone puts up and shuts up? I think I'd write a letter, a nice one, saying that you were really shocked to hear what was said and that you thought it was insensitive, not a ranty shouty letter but one which says that you are putting it in writing because you don't want other people to have to hear such insensitivies.

I wouldn't sue but again, a letter saying how lucky they are that you are not suing might help countless others. My obstetrician told me (bearing in my mind that he also has a private practice) that his annual insurance premiums are £250,000 ! (they do get sued a lot, obstetricians).

Best of luck. I promise that it does get better. I went to hell and back too. Never thought I'd feel normal. But I do now. Took a long time. can honestly say it took a year. Don't push yourself too hard. Be nice to yourself. Try to accept as much help as you can.

LittleOne, I didnt put my complaint in until almost a year after I had my problems and it was still dealt with. It was 5 years later that I got in touch with Sheila Kitzinger as my flashbacks and PTSD were ruining every Xmas for us (Xmas Eve was when it all when to hell in a hand basket after she was born a week earlier), so its never too late.

Sounds like a nightmare kelly and unless you have a meeting with your surgeon/midwife to go over the ifs and buts you'll never know what was avoidable and what just happended - but it will take time and energy to articulate a letter, arrange and go to a meeting so make sure you're not going to feel physically worse by putting yourself through all of that. but it would probably help you come to terms with the experience.

I had something similar with my first one and I think if I'd talked it through proeperly I wouldnt still be thinking about it all 20 years later!

But you may decide that just now you focus should be on getting to grips with looking after your son and bonding with him and starting to develop a routine with your new life.

And beware that if you go 'legal' and start with the litigaiotn route, the NHS complaints procedure is not avaialbe to you. If you do want to take this further I'd suggest you exhaust the NHS complaints route before you consider anything legal (and although others have suggested the legal route, I'm not sure what loss you could be litigating for?)

I hope you make a rapid recovery - and dont let it put you off next time - I had 2 perfectly grand caesers after the first nightmare.....

Hello. I can't believe what a terrible time you've had to go through. First of all, I think you ought to pursue this case and make a formal complaint against the doctor who kept you waiting for a c-section and the stupid insensitive woman at the hospital. It's all too easy for stuff like this to get ignored, but if more people spoke up then changes can be made.

Hope everything goes well for you.

Thanks for all the replies, I had a visit from a new health visitor today, even she said the hospital isnt great and its dirty! She also mentioned speaking to PALS.

However, just after she left I get a phone call, from a tissue viability nurse from a different hospital, my surgeon has asked her to come and visit me at home, so shes coming on Monday to have a look at my stomach, and im hoping and crossing everything that I dont have to go back on the venturi pump and dont need anymore surgical intervention, Ive had enough of being prodded and poked!

Good luck on Monday. Will you let us know how you got on? (starting to sound like Cilla Black )

A quick update for you BanalChelping

Im now being treated with manuka honey dressings!

Apparently Im over granulating and may still have some bugs in the bit that isnt healing properly, so the bugs eat the sugar in the honey then basically explode and die!

The honey is treated to make it sterile and I just cut a strip off, place it over the wound, then cover with a dressing, and ive not to use honey from the shop as it can cause gangrene!!

It all sounds horrendous but you are alive, well and on the mend and your baby is fine.

Sorry to go against the grain but I disagree with litigation against the NHS. I would rather my taxes went towards improving NHS services rather than paying out compensation and hiring lawyers which surely has the effect of diverting money away from where it is really needed!

I think the HCP in your OP was a bit blunt but was trying to cheer you up (and obviously failed). Complain about her if you must but what would it achieve?

kelly hugs - what an awful experience!!! im a healthcare worker on a maternity ward and do think this particular HCA was insensitive but not in a malicious way - some of the people I see caring for others does make you wonder why they went in to the "caring" profession.

i do think you should have your delivery and care experience reflected on by someone at the hospital - maybe the head of midwifery - i would write to them and ask for a copy of your notes - with such a bad infection which took a grip of you, you must have had blood tests and if these show you had a raised level of infection (CRP, WBC counts) then they should have got baby out quicker - if i was in your shoes I would want to go go over what happened and why because that is not an everyday occurance. good luck with your recovery xx

My goodness Kelly, what a nightmare. I would complain about the whole lot of it, starting with the mismanagement of your delivery and including the attitude of the HCP. I disagree with some of the earlier posts saying she was just trying to cheer you up. She probably was, but it was a stupidly poor way of doing it, and they should know she feels entitled to share these types of views to patients. I think she was out of line saying what she said to you. I think they would want to know she's saying insensitive things to patients, because they can retrain or support her in improving her performance at work.

Personally though, I would really wait until you are strong enough. You've been through an awful experience and are still not fully healed. Make some notes, to keep it all straight in your head, and sit down once you feel you're on top of everything and then complain.

One poster above (tryharder) indicated that you shouldn't litigate against the NHS.

There is a BIG difference between complaining and hiring a lawyer to sue for financial compensation, so I am not sure what tryharder is getting at. The OP wasn't proposing to sue as far as I can see from her post. She proposes to complain to bring these issues to the hospital's attention.

Actually tryharder, I am being a bit tough on you as we're not that far apart on views. I am also no fan of people demanding compensation for every little thing, it annoys the hell out of me and is getting out of hand.

But sometimes, patients are seriously harmed by substandard care. Those people do deserve a remedy. And, sad to say, some PCTs won't change poor practices until they are forced to. If making poor performing PCTs pay compensation is the only way to given them enough of an incentive to improve the levels of care that they offer, then people are and should be entitled to sue.

Oh my word you poor thing - you must be shattered physically and emotionally

Leave it for now as another poster said and when you are better then is the time to decide wether to complain.

Hospital is never easy and I've spent weeks at a time for various things and each time there has been something pretty horrendous happened that is worthy of complaint. Once I did complain and it was dealt with well but tbh people being insensitive and saying upsetting things isn't something to complain about in this instance imo.

I DO understand, when my baby was born prem and I was having a quiet cry beside his incubator, one 'helpful' SCUBU nurse said "I don't know why you are crying, you should be making the most of this time without him because it's when he comes home that's when the real hard work starts!" I spent possibly the next 6 months planning how to kill that nurse!!!!! - dramatic I know but dear Lord I was so desperate to hold my baby, comments like that were NOT helpful!

With regards to having a section - As far as I know it's such a fine line between deciding on a vaginal delivery which is better for the baby and mother and a section which as you know can lead to all sort of complications however rare, the decision is often left to what seems like the last minute - it was with me and I was high risk and already in hospital on bed rest, and to me it still all seemed like a mad last minute decision.

With regards to the infection, you were REALLY REALLY unlucky and people forget that after any op even minor ones there is risk of infection, not always due to hygiene in the theatre but just one of those awful things that happen. My son had what was meant to be the most simple straight forward day op last year and he was like you - ended up with the most horrible infection and was ill for 6 weeks.

Manuka honey is meant to be fantastic - I have read loads about its healing properties! :)

I hope you heal quickly and are able to but this horrible start behind you x

Oh yes and I think a complaint is in order if you do go down that road, not to sue.

I found this very helpful

www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/