to think nobody should have to 'set boundaries'?

[MitchiestInge]

People should just know how to behave without giving others need to resort to stupid assertiveness self help type babble that doesn't even work, surely? Although perhaps if I knew how to behave I wouldn't be wondering how to interact with people, resolve conflict and negotiate the terms of various relationships.

Does everyone but me find this easy?

I don't think anyone finds it easy.

the difference is how far you go into beating yourself up when you get it wrong, and how easy you find it is to say sorry if you overstep boundaries, and equally how easy you find it to say 'fuck off nobhead that's really offensive'.

And how tactful you can be at rephrasing the nobhead part.

not sure exactly what you mean. do you mean, people not conforming to the rules of the law or generally being nice to people?

random comma in there. sorry.

I think everyone requires different boundaries which is probably what causes the confusion.

I imagine that one's upbringing determines where one sets boundaries and the need to communicate this, or not, will depend on the people you're interacting with.

no, i HATE confrontation and would feel happier if i had some learned stratergies.

I tned not to associate with folk who may require any boundries to be set.

I choose my frinds carefully.
Folk in everyday situations and say, at work, i am professional with and hide underneeth this umbrella.

Not law, social stuff. People being shouty or just weird or even nasty and the impossibility of communicating with them. Maybe am a misanthrope, should live on an island?

ah right. yes i understand. i think i am with bigbumum here. i have come across people who i find i have to clearly define my boundaries with them only to come to the conclusion that it is less frustrating to just not have them in my life. i find that people who need my boundaries clarified, will always need the boundaries clarified WRT some aspect of interaction or another. easier to redefine the relationship as merely 'someone i know' rather than someone i have many dealings with. does this make me harsh?

It sounds practical, don't know about harsh. Am probably a serial boundary crossing offender myself now that I think about it.

Might throw away boundary idea and try some other way of thinking about relationships.

Bigbumum - yes, in some ways it's much easier to not associate with folk who need boundaries. They are the worst for turning it around and getting a bit nasty when you try to set a boundary - making you feel like you're the baddie.

Your idea of weird is anothers idea of normal, though. You are to some extent saying that how you behave is the right way and others are wrong. I would not want to live in a world we are all the same. What would be the point of sitting back and people watching? People have different personalities and have had different upbringings so you need to communicate what you need from others (or don't need/want). How do you expect them just to know?

People come in all different shapes and sizes including behaviour and personality. Accept others for how they are and make your choice who you mix with but don't tell others how they should be.

Why can't difference flourish within a range of at least halfway respectful behaviours though? I'm not imagining there should never be any friction but I feel baffled by what must be My Problem, the difficulties of communicating when all normal means fail.

One of the things that set the human race apart is the ability to communicate. I don't know why some people seem scared to open their mouths and speak. You are still saying that there is a right way and wrong way to behave. What do you call 'respectable'? Of course there is in terms of we shouldn't go around hitting each other but you would have to give an example to properly illustrate your point.

Hitting each other is a good example, I suppose I am thinking of similar basic inviolable sorts of 'rights' - knowingly causing distress, infringement of privacy, that sort of thing.

By respectful I mean just that, not 'respectable', the basic respect any human usually affords another.

BelleDameSansMerci has it right I think: in theory everyone should know where the lines are drawn and that may be a reasonable expectation among groups of very similarly brought up and educated people but in modern life its rarely that simple. For example, my husband, who is South American, thinks nothing about expressing regret and sadness to people who are going through relationship breakups without his views being sought, not to be prurient but because he wants to help and be supportive. He just doesn't get the English convention that you don't volunteer an opinion on someone else's private life without being invited to do so and he thinks its cold that we tend to avoid talking about personal things until asked. I'm in the middle on this: I understand his sentiments but it instinctively makes me wince because I was brought up by quite repressed, English parents and it makes total sense to me that people want to avoid having these things talked about in public. To be honest I think its healthier that we occasionally have to set boundaries -- sometimes you have to cross them to learn lessons. Also the world would be a dull place if we all had the same boundaries.

I think there are two types of people (i am not including any behaviour caused by any mental illness/SN/low inteligence).

There are those that are horrible people. These have always exsisted but have in the past had 'legimate' targets i.e been slave owners, got themselves in positions of power (prison warders, hangmen) etc.

On the other hand there are those that have been damaged by their upbringing.

Thats why we have laws and acceptable ways to behave (but there is still a range of behaviour that is impossible to police). I personally do not want to live in a police state, though.

Thats how the human race is unfortunatly. Some people have to be shown how they should be or just need to grow up. I know of people who have been terrible people until they have had children, then they seem to understand why they needed to chgange.

People have different expectations of others and we all set boundaries that are comfortable for us, on an individual basis and a societal one. Most of the time we don't have to enforce them at all, but when we do it is usually noticable because it's very hard to set a boundary and have other people agree with it. Because if they had the same boundary, then they wouldn't have overstepped ours, would they? Or you would hope not.

I think boundaries are a very personal thing and have to be constructed on the basis of protecting ourselves, rather than controlling someone else's behaviour.