to wonder with what authority USA killed Osama Bin Laden.

[Mamaz0n]

Since when has murder been justice?

Don't get me wrong, i think it is a good thing that he has died. I think that to imprison him would have caused massive uprising in violence and kidnaps etc.

But it bothers me that America has just decided that this man is guilty and therefore acted to murder him.

It is my (probably naive) understanding that you can't be extradited to a state that has the death penalty, so how exactly can Obama's order to kill Bin Laden be at all legal?

I have even just heard that the Pakistani government were not even aware that the USA were taking this action.

I am sorry but it sits very uncomfortably with me.

excuse the horrific typos (sitting on my high horse etc)....

I also forgot to add the bombing the of the USS Cole.

Ah, I should really read the news properly before I post catsareeveil, hadn't seen the pictures!

Anyway, just realised I didn't actually respond to what the op had posted and just rattled on about whether it's true or not!

I do find it unnerving that the US are able to just go round executing people without a trial and the majority of people don't question it. But then I guess if it's true that he wouldn't surrender then they couldn't just let him go... Who knows what's true!

TBH I'll take the US brand of jingoism over Bin Laden's any day. Osama Bin Laden is a figurehead for Islamic fundamentalism - let's remember what is done in the name of that. And I am not talking about 9/11 as much as the treatment of women and men in Afghanistan.

Yes the US ain't perfect but its values are better than what Bin Laden stood for.

Totally agree rudenglishlady, herbie, catpower, mamazon.

Urgh. Disgusted.

GatOwfMarLaaaaandInni - what 'jubilation on the streets' are you referring to?

The ones currently taking place in the States, or the ones that took place in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and throughout the Arab world after 9/11?

And I don't think the US can be called to the International Criminal Court because it never signed up to it.

(would also like someone who really knows about all this to come on, but reckon they are probably quite busy at the moment )

Izzy, that's the point though. The celebrations in the streets in the US just now are no better than those in the 'stans.

Well now I am pretty sure that OBL will be replaced as a figurehead for islamic fundamentalism by somebody a LOT more visible and possibly even more pernicious.

There will be nasty reprisals. Jesus what good has the killing of OBL really achieved? Do you think Al Qaida will just be disbanded and put away queitly? I don't think so.

Just feel that this would have made things 100 times worse.

Great post polarbabe - you absolutely hit the nail on the head for me.

No celebrating here but definitely no hand wringing either.

On a lighter note, Fox News in the US must be in terrible turmoil. If they celebrate this, they'll have to... gasp... congratulate Obama.

I imagine their headlines will be along the lines of "BLACK MAN KILLS ELDERLY KIDNEY FAILURE PATIENT."

Anyway, as you were...

They are fighting a war, their presence in Pakistan is under an agreement with that government, they attacked a military target. I can't see any problem with the legality.

It wouldn't be an issue for the ICC because it is not a war crime.

Izzy - what's your point? Yes I know that there has been hatred of theUS for years, dancing on the street after 9/11. And behaviour like that has been rightly condemnded.

How can it be suddenly justified though when the goodies have killed one of the baddies?

Death being celebrated like that on the streets is never appropriate. Especially when performed by the supposedly and self-proclaimed most moral and democratic nation.

Have they formally declared a war?

Where?

Isn't it (as Snorbs suggests) a non-state based conflict?

Was there specific legilsation, introduced at a national and international level, to cover that eventuality? When? Ratified by whom?

I ask only because I'm interested - knowing very little about international law - and this is an opportunity for some informed mumsnetter to come along and inform me/us.

But imagine you are 'in the room', you are Obama and your generals are saying to you, 'we know where Bin LAden is, shall we bomb the crap out of it or shall we risk American lives trying to capture him, with the chance that he might escape?'

I think I would tell them to bomb it. I really would.

(and I'm a wishy washy liberal, at least I thought I was...)

I think it is a concern that this act will create even stronger anti american feeling than there is already.

I am feeling pretty anti american (policy) myself today, and I am as liberal as they come.

You see - this is, surely, the sort of stuff that print media should cover - in a little box/on a page, next to the "news". After all, the newsy bits you can get off the internet, faster usually. the in-depth background, long-term informative stuff is harder to come by instantly. Yet they don't, and their circulation falls. Weird.

They are interviewing a British woman on BBC News24 whose son was killed in 9/11 - she feels relieved that she now has justice for her son. She is not celebrating but is describing the pain that she felt knowing that OBL had escaped justice.

It may escalate things, but as they stand it's already dangerous. I'm not sure how it will be perceived in Tunisia or Egypt, either..

It doesn't matter whether they have formally declared a war when you are assessing their conduct under the ius in bello (law of armed conduct). In fact there are no rules about declaring war in international law (as it takes the utopian view that states will not go to war).

It would be an issue under US domestic constitutional law if they haven't declared a war, but I am fairly sure that they did after 9/11 ( I could be corrected on that).

There are agreements in place with Pakistan about US military presence and operations there, so there would not have been an illegal intervention.

The US and Pakistani forces conduct joint attacks on al-qaeda in Pakistan, and I believe that in return for the billions of aid they get the Pakistani authorities gave given carte Blanche for the USA to conduct raids to disrupt al-Qaeda inside their Borders.

Thus, in response to the OP, Pakistan gives the US the legal right to seek to capture Bin Laden - it is sovereign within its borders, and if it is happy to allow the USA to conduct operations, that's all that is required from a legal standpoint. Legally, the US special forces are probably just 'helping' the Pakistanis.

He needed to be buried quickly to avoid accusations that his body was not buried in accordance with Islam.

Spare a thought for the soldiers trying to capture him. I would, as they did, give him one chance to surrender. You don't pussy around with someone who basically runs a network of suicide bombers.

BTW, I'm not sure why people are celebrating. My only reaction was - goodness, that took a long time.

thanks handsomeharry

Osama Bin Laden killed hundreds of thousands of people, and would have killed millions if given the opportunity.

I doubt there will be an indictment against the US or President Obama for his killing.

Well done to the US troops who did this.

animula - you buy The Guardian or Telegraph of Times tomorrow and they will answer all your questions.

At the moment journalists will be scrambling for analysis of this. Analysis takes time. It will be there tomorrow (I bet the Sundays are cursing as they missed the Royal Wedding and now this...)

Thank you.