aibu to think teachers should

[goodbyemrschips]

to think teachers should work like the rest of us.

Just have 5-6 weeks of a year and work 8-5 mon to fri.

If this happened then they would get all the time they needed to set up lessons and teacher train etc during the time the kids were on holiday.

[this is inspired by another thread]

diablo, you need the SMT to earn their status by being firm about the changes that need to happen, and putting in support to enable that to happen.
If you had a child that wasn't achieving, you'd tell them, and support them and apply praise and sanctions as appropriate.
So if you are in leadership, you should care about improving the quality of your team.

'they ignore paperwork requirements'

But the bloody paperwork is a huge part of the job now, and if you don't keep up with it, you are classed as inept, rather than having different priorities.

LookTo, there are posts here that describe teachers being physically and mentally abused on a day-to-day basis as they try to do their jobs. I'm not saying people in law or medicine don't come under a lot of pressure and (perhaps) have to deal with that kind of thing too, but personally I think teachers have it very hard for those reasons and are underpaid and underappreciated.

They teach to the National Curriculum and they post reports. The children learn. All the rest is empire-building by SMT and Ofsted.

I used to be a Union rep so I know the figures. 'Inept' teaching is very rarely just that, the overwhelming majority (well into the 90%) of teachers who are having problems and are moved to another school find that the problems simply evaporate and they go on to be good teachers. Some very good teachers move to schools where they find it impossible to operate and then appear to be 'inept' or 'inadequate' (that's the official term).

The only conclusion that I can draw is that teaching is an art not a science and that SMT, parents, children and teachers combine to create success. Where this doesn't happen it is rarely fault on only one side.

Yep I think this should happen too: teachers would be very grateful for the cuts in hours & extra holidays!

I thought that was what academies where doijg and thus the outcry and threat of strike by teachers unions, as the T&C will change. This could lead to academies being left with teachers that can't get jobs else where as good teachers just aren't going to put up with unfair working conditions.

designed to get a reaction.

Which is AIBU is for is it not?

goblinchild thanks. We have just appointed a new HT, who has appointed a new SMT and I think everyone is feeling more positive.

alicatte - do you really feel that everyone who is drawn to teaching as a career is cut out for it then? That it just depends on the school they work in?

I think some teachers are incredibly dedicated and work lots of extra hours, some are able to perform and work smart if they have the correct support structures in place, other teachers do work more or less their allotted hours.

I do think teachers are underpaid, but then so are many other professions.

I think some head teachers are overpaid though, some of them have relatively small budgets and staff numbers and pupil numbers to handle.

Lookto, saying he is pretty high up in the pastoral side is pretty ephemeral. Is he a form tutor, Head of Year/PAL, Head of Key Stage, Assistant Head etc.. I think we need more context. And some context regarding school size/setting.

As for academic quals, my DP's team (of mainly young teachers) are incredibly well qualified individuals. Firsts/2.1's in pure sciences for example. A couple have masters, and iirc one is doing a part time masters in addition to teaching full time.

My DP would like to invite your DH to his school for a week so that he can see what a core subject HoD in a large inner city school has to do. It might be rather educational for him.

Failing that they could have an arm wrestle or something.

Although goodbyemrschips you maybe weren't expecting quite so many teachers to come and say "go for it, I'd be happy with those hours".

I did actually sit down and work it out one year, because I was curious. The hours I work across the year are equivalent to a full time 9-5 five weeks off a year job. I just don't do them in that pattern.

Just a quick question for the teachers out there - do you pay for your children to have childcare over the school holidays? Are you having to work all the holidays and as such do you have to employ child carers for your children?

I always wondered how you handled the holidays issue?

The last thing most children need is to spend more time at school. YABU.

Also for the reasons given above.

Obviously not - but to be honest the selection procedures are so stringent now that it would be difficult for a trainee not to realise this during training. Where I work, someone completed GTP and realised (as did their mentors from the university) that they simply weren't cut out for it. They left - it was the right decision. But this was before they had entered the profession really. I have seen 10s of trainees leave in the last few years (and this is only in my school). Training is very stringent.

In terms of my earlier post - those are the figures, what can I say?

I got what I was expecting for teachers to say go for it and then put a million obsticles in the way........

Thinking about it though, would you expect all the children to do those hours too? When would the planning and marking get done?

Not sure my four year old would cope with 9 to 5 lessons, either.....

moonwakjer my son will probably be looked after on average one day a week in the holidays, more if I know there's a lot of work to do. I do lots at night though - he's only a toddler so he goes to bed at 7.

goodbyemrschips - what is your personal interest in raising this (very controversial) thread if I may ask?

moonwakjer - no, I don't work all the holidays. I work in the evenings on holidays, once my husband is back from work. Or on holiday weekends.

moonwalker - when my children were younger, then yes, I did pay for them to be in childcare so I could work during the holidays

Hahaha at me giving up my holidays. No one would do the job if you reduced the holidays. TBH, the job would not be possible without the holidays; you hammer through 6 x sixty hour weeks of teaching and you bloody need a week or two off at the end, not least to plan for the next half term and mark coursework.

I don't think that my job is any harder than that of any other professional's but they generally get paid better than I do. I don't feel underpaid or underappreciated but that's only because I have all my lovely time off.

In my school inadequate teachers get a lot of support to enable them to sort themselves out. If they don't do it then the head will find a pretext to get rid of them (e.g. if they've ballsed up a risk assessment as it's a legal requirement and therefore a sackable offence if you don't do it right apparently) or they will be encouraged to apply for redundancy.

YABU....i work in a school and do not get paid enough for the amount of abuse, erbal, physical we staff have to deal with thats from students and their parents at times!! i dont leave school till at least 4.30 when school kicked out an hour before, have parents evenings, tutor/parent consultations and many other meetings like department and year group after school. i dont get to eat lunch properly due to duties in corridors and dinner halls and i work during the summer with new year 6 pupils for transition week. its not an easy ride trust me!